The Leveling Problem explained.

[Arohk]

I found this video from Rinon, it explains the leveling problem quite well.

https://youtu.be/X79CeOQ2Lqs?si=EN__VneuCzl-WvbF

In my opinion, the game is ripe for a level squish, especialy when there are now two more jobs coming and the MSQ is getting even longer.

and here is part 2

https://youtu.be/0njdBTmGom4?si=UJg6d_EtgTMuNFuE

[Rongway]

I don't want to leave the forums and sit through videos. Please summarize.

[DPZ2]

Second video: Final Fantasy XIV doesn't teach you how to do your job "correctly".

Oddly enough, none of the MMORPGs out there do this, but, somehow, this is a requirement for creating good players in this game.

As though the players who've been battle hardened via Bloodbourne or Dark Souls games need to be told, in great detail apparently, how to play a game.

[Actually, the title is Here's why FFXIV Players are Bad. A wonderful start to a thoughtful essay on ... bah.

[Arohk]

[Actually, the title is Here's why FFXIV Players are Bad. A wonderful start to a thoughtful essay on ... bah.

Because the game never once through the entire playthrough of the MSQ requires you to properly play your job, There never is a dps check or anything where you actually need to think for a bit or practice(excluding certain sequences where you are forced to play different character, so you don't really know what you are doing, and even then you can lower the difficulty in case you fail.)
You can beat all teh trials even if you instantly die because the other teammates just kill it for you.

[DPZ2]

Because the game never once through the entire playthrough of the MSQ requires you to properly play your job, There never is a dps check or anything where you actually need to think for a bit or practice(excluding certain sequences where you are forced to play different character, so you don't really know what you are doing, and even then you can lower the difficulty in case you fail.)
You can beat all teh trials even if you instantly die because the other teammates just kill it for you.

To some extent, after the changes made to gameplay over the years, this is quite true. Both power levels of attacks and the experience of players make a lot of the instances much easier.

However, with 20+ classes and jobs, creating high-end in-game tutorials for each would require a nightmare in resources, and one that would have to change extensively for each expansion.

I can guarantee that making such a tutorial mandatory for end-game gameplay after each expansion releases would tick off quite a number of high-end players. It would, however, remove the need for the so-called Mentoring System, so that might be a plus.

I'm not exactly sure why the Japanese servers do so well at end-game gameplay, with consistently higher percentages engaging in and completing the content. Are they just that much better at the game, despite the fact that the MSQ does not require you to properly play your job?

Or, perhaps, are they more dedicated to finding and learning from resources outside of the game?

For all of the complaining Rinon does in the two videos mentioned by the OP, I haven't found a single "learn to do better during the MSQ" video. Lots of end-game commentary on healing, yes, but nothing that walks a new player through the best habits to develop for healers while leveling. It's a common fault throughout the youtube ecosystem. Lots of "How to Raid" without any consideration of "how to prepare to raid while leveling". At least most of the jobs mentioned on the icy-veins website (example: https://www.icy-veins.com/ffxiv/white-mage-leveling) provide level-appropriate rotations for the job that will make sense as end-game approaches. Alas, Youtube creators do not yet feel the need to help develop the necessary skills while leveling.

[Eastwall]

To some extent, after the changes made to gameplay over the years, this is quite true. Both power levels of attacks and the experience of players make a lot of the instances much easier.

However, with 20+ classes and jobs, creating high-end in-game tutorials for each would require a nightmare in resources, and one that would have to change extensively for each expansion.

I can guarantee that making such a tutorial mandatory for end-game gameplay after each expansion releases would tick off quite a number of high-end players. It would, however, remove the need for the so-called Mentoring System, so that might be a plus.

I'm not exactly sure why the Japanese servers do so well at end-game gameplay, with consistently higher percentages engaging in and completing the content. Are they just that much better at the game, despite the fact that the MSQ does not require you to properly play your job?

Or, perhaps, are they more dedicated to finding and learning from resources outside of the game?

For all of the complaining Rinon does in the two videos mentioned by the OP, I haven't found a single "learn to do better during the MSQ" video. Lots of end-game commentary on healing, yes, but nothing that walks a new player through the best habits to develop for healers while leveling. It's a common fault throughout the youtube ecosystem. Lots of "How to Raid" without any consideration of "how to prepare to raid while leveling". At least most of the jobs mentioned on the icy-veins website (example: https://www.icy-veins.com/ffxiv/white-mage-leveling) provide level-appropriate rotations for the job that will make sense as end-game approaches. Alas, Youtube creators do not yet feel the need to help develop the necessary skills while leveling.

Because l know people that are even afraid to do story mode content... I have a pvp friend that can't do her relic because she has not done any pve for a long time and is afraid for that story mode trial.... I will help her later tonight.

[Mayhemmer]

It's a common fault throughout the youtube ecosystem. Lots of "How to Raid" without any consideration of "how to prepare to raid while leveling".

That's a thing I noticed when I was trying to pick BLM back up a few months ago. Most "How to [Insert Job]" videos I came across came in one of two flavors: meme videos, which generally aren't very helpful and are mostly unimportant fluff; and "guides" that just recite the tooltip of every job before launching into end-game rotations, just assuming the viewer is already aware of all the nuances of the job's mechanics and how they effect each other, but never explaining them.

Maybe there's stuff out there that goes into that and I just didn't come across it, but it really feels like there's a general lack of tutorial content floating around that actually explains the workings of a job from the ground up. It's very strange considering how popular the game is.

[Jojoya]

Because the game never once through the entire playthrough of the MSQ requires you to properly play your job, There never is a dps check or anything where you actually need to think for a bit or practice(excluding certain sequences where you are forced to play different character, so you don't really know what you are doing, and even then you can lower the difficulty in case you fail.)
You can beat all teh trials even if you instantly die because the other teammates just kill it for you.

What MMORPGs do in leveling content? Challenge requiring knowledge of how to play a job tends to only exist in the end game side content.

There's the other issue of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". It doesn't matter what tutorials a game has. If someone doesn't want to learn, they won't. Those interested in learning how to play better will. Some players might even learn and still play incorrectly just because they can.

It's an old argument that goes nowhere because it's useless in an online game. Don't like how well the random players you get matched with play the game? Create a circle of friends that you trust and play with them instead.

Having just gone through EW myself, I can attest, this isn't 100% true. With intention to only ever take MSQ (and MSQ duties) exp on my main job, there were a couple gaps that required a few FATEs be cleared to bridge the levels.

Part of it depends on how you play the game. If you're playing several hours a day each day, you're going to miss out on most of the rested XP bonus that bridges those gaps. If you're playing 6-8 hours total a week, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't own the next expansion and reach level cap for the expansion you do have, that's also going to contribute. Even if the amount of XP earned from patch content is small, it does add up and you lose it if you're doing the patch content while level capped.

I can guarantee that making such a tutorial mandatory for end-game gameplay after each expansion releases would tick off quite a number of high-end players. It would, however, remove the need for the so-called Mentoring System, so that might be a plus.

The Mentor system isn't about teaching others how to play their jobs (though that can be part of it if a Mentor wants to share what they know). The Mentor system is to help new players with general game basics. Where is such and such located, how do I unlock this content, what do I do to get this item, this queue is too long can someone help me get this done for MSQ, etc.

What SE needs to do to fix the Mentor system is remove the rewards.

[Hasrat]

Part of it depends on how you play the game. If you're playing several hours a day each day, you're going to miss out on most of the rested XP bonus that bridges those gaps. If you're playing 6-8 hours total a week, it shouldn't be a problem.

Rested only applies to combat exp. There's truly very little actual combat through MSQ. The occasional "kill a few of these enemies" or "stand here and kill what spawns," and duties that are spread out. The vast majority of MSQ leveling exp is purely quest exp, which rested will not apply to and won't be used up for. At no point did I ever manage to catch up to rested bonus through EW.

What does help bridge those MSQ gaps is things like exploration bonus exp (I swapped to a different job to explore new maps) and sightseeing exp (again, swapped jobs for those bonuses). Sightseeing is definitely good to have unlocked and up to date just for those little boosts.

Point is, if you take a job starting at 80 at the first EW quest, taking only what exp you will get from MSQ quests, role quests, and one trip through each duty along the way, you'll find 2-3 points where MSQ ticks up a level before you've dinged, and will have to supplement with the activity of your choice. I didn't feel like running extra duties/roulettes mid-story, so I stuck with FATEs. And, to be clear, these are still small gaps, bridged with only a few FATEs at most.

[DPZ2]

Do the videos make sense? Mostly.

Who are the video made for? The people who don't have any problems playing the game.

It certainly wasn't designed explicitly as a tutorial to enhance the playstyle of new players. Rather, it becomes a way to complain about those new players.