Pictomancer's effects need some more work

[KageTokage]

A battling artist is already quirky by nature, but they didn't need to double down on it with cartoony visuals/sound design...which is basically what distinguishes XIV's take on it from the others that have been mentioned.

[Sequora]

I think they’re close. I don’t want them to look like normal spells. That’s so boring. They’re clearly going for a cell shaded effect which I like. Just a bit more polish.

[MitsukiKimura]

The Ice spell looking like a PS2 Blizzard l
Rock spell looks like something from the Last Avatar on Xbox 360
Definitely needs polish

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

From the 6.55 updated website



Uuuuh... Pretty bold to debut a job in-game only 2 weeks after its reveal without waiting for the playerbase's reaction, feels a little bit rushed?

Although if it's like the other Scions, I imagine Krile will have her own unique spells with their own VFX, so maybe we'll get to see something closer to the CGI trailer?

[KageTokage]

They used Gosetsu to "preview" Samurai back in 3.55 but his abilities weren't the same as the playable version, so I assume they'll do the same here in whatever obligatory solo duty they'll likely toss in.

[Cidel]

My point is that not only the trailers look nothing alike in my opinion (besides the characters in them being cute females using a giant paintbrush), but that what's shown in the trailer for the pictomancer are things that existed and looked that way since before Lost Ark or its Artist were released. It's hard to copy or even take inspiration from anything from the Artist's trailer from 2020 (date when the trailer was originally published) when what's shown here is the same stuff that a character from 2019 already did, and which was directly inspired by the 1994 version.

And my point was that the trailers are actually alike in regards to their choice of model and their overall behavior prior to the actual skill showcases. You seem to be fixated on Splatoon magePictomancer's history in the franchise (which I already acknowledged in Merrigan's comment) and its animation assets being somehow replicated from a different FF game when that was never my primary comparison. Looking cutesy and cheerfully skipping onto the scene aren't exclusive to Splatoon magePictomancer's identity, so excuse me when I raise an eyebrow at an official trailer of a different online game thematically starting out the same way with a blond model wearing primarily white, parading around before noticing the camera and making a cute gesture before the gameplay segment. That has nothing to do with "the job existed before-" and everything to do with presentation. (And Krile having prominent cat ears in her outfit is just a cherry on top)

Or how else could they showcase the job? Because it's also the same format that they've always used for job reveals, with a small intro, then the character using the job actions (I already explained this) against a random monster, and then an outro. All of that while using a fitting music and tone for the job, reminiscent of its origins. I'm legit wondering, since you even literally said that you "might certainly be thinking" that the pictomancer (didn't mention the trailer there, by the way) is a rip-off of that Lost Ark game's Artist class trailer. I copied and pasted your words, so you might want to go back and carefully read what you posted (joking, lol). Moreover, I also fail to see whats "a little too coincidental" about the timing considering the differences in dates that I mentioned.

I'm aware of how XIV showcases its new jobs. You even said it yourself; it starts with a short intro: the intros are what I'm comparing. I could care less about what the skill showcase animations look like to make comparisons, especially when they're two totally different types of games. They thematically start out similar to each other with comparable models that at best I'd consider XIV's to be a possible parody. And there's a difference in stating Splat(eh, forget it) "Pictomancer is a rip-off of Artist's class trailer" than "deciding to make Pictomancer now is a rip-off of Artist's class trailer." I'm making both a timing and a thematic critique, not an original idea critique like you seem to want to (and have been) arguing.

What I found "coincidental" about the timing has nothing to do with some obscure 2019 game having a Pictomancer and more to do with XIV's Pictomancer dropping a few years (apparently 4 instead of 2) after Artist; with a similar type of reveal intro (again, it's almost a parody). We know that new jobs take about a couple years to design, so I wouldn't be shocked to hear that seeing that Artist trailer might have... "planted" an idea in the designing process.

Anyway, and in all seriousness now, I'm not sure why you thought that I took anything seriously and not that I was making a casual interaction, which is also the only thing that I do on these forums nowadays. Or why you even felt the need to write that. But you do you, I guess. I'm not here to pick up any fights, and I think that I already explained myself well enough here. I hope.

Merrigan and I were having a casual interaction. You decided to quote me specifically and drop dates and previous origins of Pictomancer in the franchise when I already had conceded and acknowledged the job was established well before Lost Ark (because I am well aware of that). It essentially came off as you trying to get some kind of "gotcha" moment on me with who invented the class first when I was clearly talking about the presentation and behavior of the models in their respective trailers. Quite frankly, I don't know why you even felt the need to respond to me and write that up when I already acknowledged it. If you didn't take it seriously, you wouldn't have bothered. Clearly, I must have hit a nerve. You already stated that you think the two trailers look nothing alike to you, so if that's your opinion on it (and well, you said it is), I guess there's nothing left to discuss.

[Yshnal]

And my point was that the trailers are actually alike in regards to their choice of model and their overall behavior prior to the actual skill showcases. You seem to be fixated on Splatoon magePictomancer's history in the franchise (which I already acknowledged in Merrigan's comment) and its animation assets being somehow replicated from a different FF game when that was never my primary comparison. Looking cutesy and cheerfully skipping onto the scene aren't exclusive to Splatoon magePictomancer's identity, so excuse me when I raise an eyebrow at an official trailer of a different online game thematically starting out the same way with a blond model wearing primarily white, parading around before noticing the camera and making a cute gesture before the gameplay segment. That has nothing to do with "the job existed before-" and everything to do with presentation. (And Krile having prominent cat ears in her outfit is just a cherry on top)



I'm aware of how XIV showcases its new jobs. You even said it yourself; it starts with a short intro: the intros are what I'm comparing. I could care less about what the skill showcase animations look like to make comparisons, especially when they're two totally different types of games. They thematically start out similar to each other with comparable models that at best I'd consider XIV's to be a possible parody. And there's a difference in stating Splat(eh, forget it) "Pictomancer is a rip-off of Artist's class trailer" than "deciding to make Pictomancer now is a rip-off of Artist's class trailer." I'm making both a timing and a thematic critique, not an original idea critique like you seem to want to (and have been) arguing.

What I found "coincidental" about the timing has nothing to do with some obscure 2019 game having a Pictomancer and more to do with XIV's Pictomancer dropping a few years (apparently 4 instead of 2) after Artist; with a similar type of reveal intro (again, it's almost a parody). We know that new jobs take about a couple years to design, so I wouldn't be shocked to hear that seeing that Artist trailer might have... "planted" an idea in the designing process.



Merrigan and I were having a casual interaction. You decided to quote me specifically and drop dates and previous origins of Pictomancer in the franchise when I already had conceded and acknowledged the job was established well before Lost Ark (because I am well aware of that). It essentially came off as you trying to get some kind of "gotcha" moment on me with who invented the class first when I was clearly talking about the presentation and behavior of the models in their respective trailers. Quite frankly, I don't know why you even felt the need to respond to me and write that up when I already acknowledged it. If you didn't take it seriously, you wouldn't have bothered. Clearly, I must have hit a nerve. You already stated that you think the two trailers look nothing alike to you, so if that's your opinion on it (and well, you said it is), I guess there's nothing left to discuss.

Drop the aggressivity and the sarcasm a bit, okay? Just because someone quotes the last person in a conversation (since there were a couple of them going on) doesn't mean that they dislike them or want to have a "gotcha" moment against them. You assumed all that by yourself, since I just provided some data and said nothing against you or your opinion there. I might have misunderstood part of what you originally said because your wording wasn't the best (as I mentioned in the previous post), but you really seem to take this as a personal attack of some sort even after I explained it in more detail, which I'll repeat again: what's shown in the trailer (aside from the job actions) is based on the job's thematic history (cutesy flavor included), which predates the other trailer and which is always included in each job trailer. In my opinion (which is as valid as yours and doesn't imply any kind of attack against you), it was the obvious way to showcase the job and doesn't have anything to do with a trailer that Lost Ark released 4 years ago. And I'm talking about the intro here, too, by the way. Moreover, the only similarities are that both characters are females using a giant paintbrush, as I also said, since their outfits don't even look remotely close in design (so, they're "comparable" like an apple can be compared to an orange in that they're both fruits), and the scenery couldn't even be more different too. But let's compare them in more detail, if you want:

Artist: Cute short female, blonde, with a white short dress, blonde hair with pigtails, and a giant paintbrush on her back. She's happily walking on a green field full of pink and purple flowers. The camera changes and we see her waving with both hands towards the camera, and then does a cute dance and starts drawing on the ground with the huge paintbrush, to then move it around her while a black ink drawing of two flower threes covers the screen under her.

Pictomancer: Average sized female, blonde, with the hair up, wearing an artist-inspired cap with a feather, a black strapless crop top, a white short jacket with purple details, and some pants using the same design, the latter half-covered by a green and grey buttcape. Both the clothes and the model are heavily inspired by Relm as designed by Yoshitaka Amano. She's walking around the markets with a typical female hyur walking animation (very close to it), then she notices the camera, smiles, throws rainbow colored paint towards said camera and winks before finally covering it completely in paint.

So, what? Are the similarities that both are females using a paintbrush, as I said? I can't honestly see what you're talking about it looking like a parody.

By the way, if you're also talking about the extended trailer, Krile had ears in the outfit since ages ago (classical WHM clothes). Moreover, it was the only remaining Scion which hadn't gotten a job change yet, so it was the obvious pick considering both that, the aesthetics, and the character's magical background. I can't imagine how the trailer would've looked like if Krile had showcased the Viper and Derplander the Pictomancer... It might had been fun, tho, lol.

And no, they didn't just suddendly decide while working on Dawntrail that they wanted to include the Pictomancer. That was probably decided even before Endwalker was released, as it's usually the case with expansion content and themes.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not here to pick up any fights and you seem to actually take this way too seriously and personally. So, maybe let's agree to disagree and leave it there.

[Khryseis_Astra]

From the 6.55 updated website



Uuuuh... Pretty bold to debut a job in-game only 2 weeks after its reveal without waiting for the playerbase's reaction, feels a little bit rushed?

Although if it's like the other Scions, I imagine Krile will have her own unique spells with their own VFX, so maybe we'll get to see something closer to the CGI trailer?

I’m wondering if she’ll be a Trust for the new dungeon, or if that won’t be til 7.0. If she is, I’m running that with Trust the first time to get a look at the gameplay! But I’m kinda hoping it won’t be til Dawntrail, because I want them to have more time to work on it and make it better… could be that this screenshot comes from the very last scene in the MSQ, much like her holding that clover! lol

[Cidel]

Drop the aggressivity and the sarcasm a bit, okay? Just because someone quotes the last person in a conversation (since there were a couple of them going on) doesn't mean that they dislike them or want to have a "gotcha" moment against them. You assumed all that by yourself, since I just provided some data and said nothing against you or your opinion there. I might have misunderstood part of what you originally said because your wording wasn't the best (as I mentioned in the previous post), but you really seem to take this as a personal attack of some sort even after I explained it in more detail, which I'll repeat again: what's shown in the trailer (aside from the job actions) is based on the job's thematic history (cutesy flavor included), which predates the other trailer and which is always included in each job trailer. In my opinion (which is as valid as yours and doesn't imply any kind of attack against you), it was the obvious way to showcase the job and doesn't have anything to do with a trailer that Lost Ark released 4 years ago. And I'm talking about the intro here, too, by the way. Moreover, the only similarities are that both characters are females using a giant paintbrush...

[stuff, way too many characters for a quote]

...Anyway, as I said, I'm not here to pick up any fights and you seem to actually take this way too seriously and personally. So, maybe let's agree to disagree and leave it there.

Not any more aggressivity and sarcasm than the snark and condescension that's been littered in yours. If you think I'm merely just assuming you didn't casually drop in to provide that "data" as some kind of "the more you know" trivia rather than some sort of derision or counter-argument to me daring to imply Artist's trailer even had a possibility of influencing Pictomancer's; then again I ask, why did you even feel the need to respond? If you're quoting someone, typically you are directly responding to what they said or an idea they are conveying. Discounting the fact that right off the bat you didn't even address my original point and went straight to defending Pictomancer with largely unrelated trivia. If anything, you seem to have considered it a personal attack when I said to carefully reread what you were responding to and that you seem to take it seriously enough to want to bring in history of the job- enough to have a lengthy response to my two-sentence reply. So enough of the deflecting of who's offending who.

Last I was aware, Pictomancer's thematic history (not that there's a whole lot) didn't revolve around generally frolicking about and looking as blithe as possible; naturally it's about their use of art/paint in battle. There are several other depictions in different media of characters who bring their art to life to do battle as well. And it seems to be a stretch to imply that being cutesy is just part and parcel of FF's depiction, when something as recent as Bravely Default II's Pictomancer didn't display any of that at all. I already laid-out the similarities between the beginning of both trailers, and you not acknowledging anything beyond "both have females with big brushes" and using different scenery as an example is just being willfully obtuse or splitting hairs. You realize things don't have to be 1:1 carbon copies of each other to be similar, right? Something I'm sure companies are mindful of as much as possible and know where the lines are crossed.

I'm aware that Krile's been around for a while with that outfit (which is classically more aligned with the Devout advanced job, but there is seldom overlap), but how incidental that the character representing Pictomancer has cat ears as well. But justify it however you want.

If the similarities I pointed out just flew over your head because it's not an exact copy of the other, then I'm not sure what more else can be said. It's still looking like I seemed to have hit a nerve, given the lengths you seem to be going to defend the originality/integrity of Pictomancer's reveal trailer, contrary to your claim of not taking it seriously and not wanting "to pick a fight" (ie: argue?) Obviously, Pictomancer wasn't decided on a whim when Dawntrail was in development, but 2020 is before Endwalker's release anyway, so it's a moot point.

Free to leave it as that and disagree. Figured as much that it would be that outcome from your last post; but please, miss me with the holier than thou deflection on who's taking things seriously and personally as if you aren't typing walls of text either.

[Yshnal]

Not any more aggressivity and sarcasm than the snark and condescension that's been littered in yours. If you think I'm merely just assuming you didn't casually drop in to provide that "data" as some kind of "the more you know" trivia rather than some sort of derision or counter-argument to me daring to imply Artist's trailer even had a possibility of influencing Pictomancer's; then again I ask, why did you even feel the need to respond? If you're quoting someone, typically you are directly responding to what they said or an idea they are conveying. Discounting the fact that right off the bat you didn't even address my original point and went straight to defending Pictomancer with largely unrelated trivia. If anything, you seem to have considered it a personal attack when I said to carefully reread what you were responding to and that you seem to take it seriously enough to want to bring in history of the job- enough to have a lengthy response to my two-sentence reply. So enough of the deflecting of who's offending who.

Last I was aware, Pictomancer's thematic history (not that there's a whole lot) didn't revolve around generally frolicking about and looking as blithe as possible; naturally it's about their use of art/paint in battle. There are several other depictions in different media of characters who bring their art to life to do battle as well. And it seems to be a stretch to imply that being cutesy is just part and parcel of FF's depiction, when something as recent as Bravely Default II's Pictomancer didn't display any of that at all. I already laid-out the similarities between the beginning of both trailers, and you not acknowledging anything beyond "both have females with big brushes" and using different scenery as an example is just being willfully obtuse or splitting hairs. You realize things don't have to be 1:1 carbon copies of each other to be similar, right? Something I'm sure companies are mindful of as much as possible and know where the lines are crossed.

I'm aware that Krile's been around for a while with that outfit (which is classically more aligned with the Devout advanced job, but there is seldom overlap), but how incidental that the character representing Pictomancer has cat ears as well. But justify it however you want.

If the similarities I pointed out just flew over your head because it's not an exact copy of the other, then I'm not sure what more else can be said. It's still looking like I seemed to have hit a nerve, given the lengths you seem to be going to defend the originality/integrity of Pictomancer's reveal trailer, contrary to your claim of not taking it seriously and not wanting "to pick a fight" (ie: argue?) Obviously, Pictomancer wasn't decided on a whim when Dawntrail was in development, but 2020 is before Endwalker's release anyway, so it's a moot point.

Free to leave it as that and disagree. Figured as much that it would be that outcome from your last post; but please, miss me with the holier than thou deflection on who's taking things seriously and personally as if you aren't typing walls of text either.

You were talking on a public forum, so of course I was going to feel the need to respond if I thought that I could add something. In the original post because you two were discussing about the possibility of the Pictomancer having been influenced in some way by the Artist's trailer (I'm paraphrasing you), to which I replied to show that it was a bit far fetched for sure, considering the historical data (more on that later). The rest is just you assuming things, as I said, and also projecting onto me (avoiding the point? condescension? WTF?). I was even trying to make light fun in my posts when I was directly criticizing something that I directly copied from what you actually wrote and that you promptly ignored, while your posts are filled with aggressivity and sarcasm, as well as more and more assumptions. It's getting tiring already.

But if you really want that hard to see me taking it a bit more seriously, which is what I get from your insistence on acting like that, let's focus on what you VERY conveniently cut and take a couple of minutes to actually look for stuff:

Artist: Cute short female, blonde, with a white short dress, blonde hair with pigtails, and a giant paintbrush on her back. She's happily walking on a green field full of pink and purple flowers. The camera changes and we see her waving with both hands towards the camera, and then does a cute dance and starts drawing on the ground with the huge paintbrush, to then move it around her while a black ink drawing of two flower threes covers the screen under her.

Pictomancer: Average sized female, blonde, with the hair up, wearing an artist-inspired cap with a feather, a black strapless crop top, a white short jacket with purple details, and some pants using the same design, the latter half-covered by a green and grey buttcape. Both the clothes and the model are heavily inspired by Relm as designed by Yoshitaka Amano. She's walking around the markets with a typical female hyur walking animation (very close to it), then she notices the camera, smiles, throws rainbow colored paint towards said camera and winks before finally covering it completely in paint.

So, what? Are the similarities that both are females using a paintbrush, as I said? I can't honestly see what you're talking about it looking like a parody.

By the way, if you're also talking about the extended trailer, Krile had ears in the outfit since ages ago (classical WHM clothes). Moreover, it was the only remaining Scion which hadn't gotten a job change yet, so it was the obvious pick considering both that, the aesthetics, and the character's magical background. I can't imagine how the trailer would've looked like if Krile had showcased the Viper and Derplander the Pictomancer... It might had been fun, tho, lol.

And no, they didn't just suddendly decide while working on Dawntrail that they wanted to include the Pictomancer. That was probably decided even before Endwalker was released, as it's usually the case with expansion content and themes.

Artist (same design as in the trailer):


Pictomancer (from the trailer, too):




Relm (Yoshitaka Amano's design from 1994):


Krile's ears when using the white mage job: https://twitter.com/allaganeyes/stat...88735317233664

Now, since you're talking about resemblances, what resembles what? Moreover, what actually looks like an exact copy of what? Neither the character's actions in the introductions NOR the designs (despite you actually saying so) look anything alike. Not even close. Otherwise, stop beating around the bush and tell me what specifically you think that looks similar, because you didn't lay out anything like you said. Maybe you should go back and read both what you said and what you didn't say? Perhaps you have some sort of short term memory loss, who knows. Anyway, I guess that most would agree with me that by looking at the "resemblances" no one in their sane mind would have originally thought that you were talking about the opening of the trailers alone and not about the actual skill showcases, which are much more similar despite the striking differences.

And yes, the Pictomancer actually has a history about acting cute and "frolicking about". Let's not forget that time that Relm blithely entered the battle stage while the rest of the party was already fighting and then trolled Ultros hard with her cuteness, for example (https://youtu.be/1gnZnEU9urU?feature=shared&t=100). It looks like you should check your "awareness" better. I don't even know what Bravely Default has to do with this, either, when it's a completely different IP that is obviously going to be able to have different aesthetics. However, apparently using Dissidia (such and obscure game!) as an example was a no-no for you. Funny, isn't it?

Also, in regards to Krile, I already explained the origins of the ears in the cloak (yes, you were wrong), as well as why she was the character chosen for the job (in the fragment that you chose to leave out on the quote). The rest is just you trying to desperately find something which is only in your apparently very rich imagination, to say the least. Did you want me to actually act as in your assumptions and projections?

All of the above is why historical data and dates are important, instead of just pulling conspiracy theories from out of your... hat?

Now, I'll patiently wait for you to be as detailed as I was and explain what concrete evidence you have to think that there any similarities beyond what I already acknowledged. Enlighten me and let's have some fun, if that's what you insist on. However, i won't be surprised if you don't do it, or if you make up stuff again. After all, you even made up stuff about what I wrote and even my intentions! Lastly, excuse me if I like and enjoy writing and I wrote too much before, since apparently one needs to have some hidden feelings in order to write and be detailed. I hope that you like it more now that I used the tone that you imagined!

Disclaimer: Most of this post is full of well-deserved sarcasm. For the obtuse ones that can't even distinguish between someone just discussing something and their own hallucinations, and which may now think that someone is angry at them. No, you aren't as important as you might believe to deserve that, buddy. But I hope that you understood the difference now.