Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Astrus]

[...] From what we can see, only Krile and Thancred have any direct stake in Dawntrail, was it necessary to bring everyone else too? All the Scions being in Dawntrail is made even weirder by them stating after the "official disbanding" of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn that they should avoid all coming together for anything to keep up the pretense of the disbanding to the rest of the world, but suddenly it's fine for everyone to meet up and travel?

[...]

We already know there's going to be some (surface) tension in regards to the succession.
What if that division is just a front and the point is to show the world that the group formerly known as the Scions of the Seventh Dawn stopped getting along and are done?

I'm obviously reaching here but I'd prefer if they had some sort of plan other than "well we didn't do any official Scions business for a week, back to business as usual guys, they'll never figure us out now"

[TaleraRistain]

It's rather strange to me that people equate asking that the Scions take a backseat for a bit to attacking their close family and friends. From what we can see, only Krile and Thancred have any direct stake in Dawntrail, was it necessary to bring everyone else too? All the Scions being in Dawntrail is made even weirder by them stating after the "official disbanding" of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn that they should avoid all coming together for anything to keep up the pretense of the disbanding to the rest of the world, but suddenly it's fine for everyone to meet up and travel?

No one is asking for any of the Scions to die, just for some of them to take a backseat to make room for new characters, like how Y'shtola took a backseat for most of Stormblood.

Wait until 6.55 before assuming you know how everyone gets to the New World. They've told us so far only the twins are with us. Recent MSQ gave Krile a reason to be there. We don't know what brings everyone else along yet. Urianger did mention someone was looking for Archons so that could be a possible hook. Which means it could be less traveling together and everyone finding their way there through different means and realizing they've all been contacted for the same purpose. That would also strengthen the idea that the Scions are going to be divided.

[Eisi]

New members shouldn't be or feel forced. It should happen after a natural chemistry between characters takes place. This is why a character like Ryne and/or Jullus would be a welcome addition, while characters like Erenville feel totally forced. With the former we have bled together on the battlefield, and have had impactful emotional experiences with each other. Erenville? He showed to be intelligent enough to see through our frog glamour. Welcome aboard mate!

Yeah and think about that Hrothgal, she didn't even do anything and yet she appears alongside the other characters in the Dawntrail trailer and even smiles (!) as if she was our best friend?!

Nothing so far suggests that Erenville and her are being treated as anything but acquaintances. They seem sympathetic enough, sure but just because they are there and friendly doesn't mean the game "forces" some sort of mutual friendship that hasn't even been established yet.

[Gemina]

Nothing so far suggests that Erenville and her are being treated as anything but acquaintances. They seem sympathetic enough, sure but just because they are there and friendly doesn't mean the game "forces" some sort of mutual friendship that hasn't even been established yet.

Except the fact that this is what the writers have done with nearly every character who is not a Scion, correct? And the ironic thing about this is that whether the acquaintance is friendly or abrasive towards the WoL and their entourage, it's the Scions that force the friendship onto them. I rather enjoyed it when Gaia had a kind of "get bent" attitude. It was refreshing.

My main point however, is that there are actually fewer interactions that do not feel forced and give a sense that the friendship feels natural, and it's these characters that I wish the writers would flesh out a bit more. Ryne is a bit of an exception because she quite literally got an entire expansion, and lives on the First. But characters like Jullus, Unukalhai, and even Fran are bound to the Source and could easily have additional screen time in the MSQ, but they just kind of kick them to the curb and introduce more side characters who will inevitably also be kicked to the curb just when emotional attachments set in.

[Cynric]

I like the scions personally, I hope to see them have many more character arcs while also introducing more characters slowly. I don't see any reason to phase them out completely, they're basically the main cast of XIV and I've enjoyed seeing how they have developed over the last 10+ years.

They always add new characters each expansion to varying degrees that we sometimes continue to interact with every now and then and it makes it a big deal when characters join the cast that we have with the scions. It wouldn't feel very organic if we just dropped the scions and then introduced some new group of characters that were just the Scions lite meant to take their place.

I support adding more characters to our ever growing group of friends and would've liked to see a character like Zenos somehow make it in there or Emmet Selch. However I don't support killing the scions just for the sake of replacing them with a lesser version just for the sake of being different.

[Rithy255]

I like the scions personally, I hope to see them have many more character arcs while also introducing more characters slowly. I don't see any reason to phase them out completely, they're basically the main cast of XIV and I've enjoyed seeing how they have developed over the last 10+ years.

I think that's the thing, they haven't really been front and center for 10+ Years if you look back on the expansions, The only a consistent scion throughout the story is alphinaud and even then theirs been lots of time spent away from him.

ARR: Featured them somewhat, they certainly had some appearances, none of them really played a massive role (outside certain instances like post patch). But they were more side characters who would sometimes help.
HW: Yeah the only Important scion was alphinaud for the main story, banding the scions back together was a side story.
SB: Featured some scions, a lot of them didn't even play major roles, it focused a lot on new characters, some of which are fan favourites, the story again had them as more Side characters but some with major roles.
Shb: This was the first expansion to focus Heavily on growing the scions as people, you know what? it was good it worked, because we had development, a lot of them were in the story but were ones we didn't know a lot about, This allowed them to stay interesting & grow.
EW: This was the second expansion to focus on them, which again was fine, I think certain growth arcs were showing that it's hard to take them into directions that are Interesting, but it was decent, I think what's funny is one of the most liked areas didn't even have them, almost like we had room to learn about other interesting characters. I think we also knew that they were fine and have massive amounts of plot Armor

Do I think the Scions should be removed? No, they should play a smaller role then SHB/EW though, have some pop up and help, but focus on new cast, I think one of the Issues that newer expansions have is that they're afraid of showing us that characters are at risk, it feels like because the scions are the scions theirs no risk of losing them which is a issue in itself, HW had a lot of raw emotion to it because you knew that beloved characters weren't invincible, it was a great story, it's also fine for these characters to grow and there not to be anything to happen, but in reality the scions don't have much room to grow anymore, nor is there any semblance of risk epically after endwalker.

[Jeeqbit]

the Issues that newer expansions have is that they're afraid of showing us that characters are at risk, it feels like because the scions are the scions theirs no risk of losing them which is a issue in itself, HW had a lot of raw emotion to it because you knew that beloved characters weren't invincible

While true, this fear of losing them was something we created in our minds because we didn't know the developers were protecting them this whole time. So we assumed the worst.

In reality, did we lose anyone that was added prior to an expansion? Let's review history.

• We lost lots of irrelevant, minor scions that were added in ARR, so that they could die in ARR.
• We lost Louisoix, added in 1.0 yes, but only really introduced to the majority of players in ARR so that he could die in ARR.
• We lost Moenbryda, added in 1.0 yes, but only really introduced to the majority of players in an ARR patch so that she could die shortly after.
• We lost Haurchefant, added shortly before Heavensward so that he could die in Heavensward.
• We lost Lady Iceheart, added shortly before Heavensward so that she could die in Heavensward.
• We lost Papalymo, perhaps the only one so far who genuinely survived multiple expansions prior to their death, but arguably they had been absent since ARR anyway and unlike the other Scions, SE couldn't find a way to make him unique from Urianger. They made Thancred unique by making him unable to use magic, they made Y'shtola unique by seeing aether instead of with her eyes, they made Lyse have this backstory that led into an expansion, they made Alisaie unique by making her an impulsive fighter that aspires to be a hero like you. But Papalymo was just another Urianger they couldn't salvage.
• We lost Minfilia, but it felt like we lost her once before back in ARR and she had been mostly absent since. So it was really just completing a death that sorta started in ARR. Despite being a 1.0 character, most people met her in 2.0 and then stopped seeing her after 2.0 beside the crystal cutscene.

So in hindsight, did we really lose anyone outside of the expansion they were create in/for? Not really, beside cutting ties with 1.0 characters they couldn't salvage.

[Hysterior]

I would have liked to start fresh as well but I think that, because of the trust system, a whole new group would mean changing all the NPCs that can join you in a story dungeon...
Probably easier for them to keep the Scions at this point and just add a couple of extra characters.

[TBerry]

I thought they made it clear that they disband on paper?

[Kaurhz]

Honestly,

I wouldn't be surprised if they meant done with them in the extent of done with them as a collective, and acting as such, e.g., not being referred to as Scions of the Seventh Dawn, rather than being done with the actual characters themselves.

Personally, I would like a new cast though I think.