The hate for limited jobs is unjustified

[sindriiisgaming]

So finally after 4 years of praying i got my dream job beastmaster.. but it may have been a monkeys paw... because I'm seeing a lof of unnecessary hated for this job because it's limited, and it's the same with bluemage.

It gets way to much hate because of this word- limited. But I think people are unfairly hating on limited jobs without asking what would it be like if they weren't. So let me try to picture it for you.

1. The learning abilities and core identity of blue magic wouldn't be there, youde have 30ish spells and actions that came with the job and you wouldn't be going out to learn any of them - why? Because if the job wasn't limited it would be like every other job

2. The option to tank/heal/dps wouldn't exist, and this would remove a large chunk of the versatility of blue mage. If it was an unlimited job like every other job it would be set role likely dps with a set rotation and 2 minute buff window.

3. Raiding in ex or savage content would no longer involve careful planning or management of skills and debuffs...it would be the standard raiding experience.

So, if seeing how right now blu mage is
*versatile
*has no 2 minute meta slave
*can learn there own skills and engage with the overworld
*has actual skill required to optimize

Why would you want to change this in any way? So you can do current content... is it really worth destroying the job over...
Have you people hating on it ever done anything hard with it? Raids or extremes? Do you have perfect blue? Masked blue? The umbrella? If so well done, but I have a feeling most of you don't because these complaints sound like you don't understand the Job.[I]It is very powerful job being able to res/heal/dps and tank with powerful invuln (diamond back) tons of dots and debuffs[/I]. It's to strong to participate in end game raids.. and the solution is either remove its kit and then it isn't fun again or don't let it play in current meta or ultimates and I think that's fair.

So what about the word LIMITED job
Well what makes it limited?
That it can't participate in raids? Wrong it can
That it can't form a party? X wrong
That you can't go in with other jobs? Also wrong
That you can't do fates? Yea u can. And should
So. What then?
that you cant nerf ultimates and current content to oblivion?
if thats youre idea of acceptable then i think you are missunderstand the point of that content

And so. Having seen all this I am asking myself why is there hate for beastmaster? When beastmaster is also probably broken in its own content and when it's also going to be interactive skill based and fun. With no 2 minute meta slavery a real sense of job identity and the ability to really customizer your kit for you... what's really limited about it.. because to me.. not having all this is far more limiting

[Doragan]

Why? Because if the job wasn't limited it would beike every other job

There's quite literally nothing stopping SE from making it a real job. You can keep the specific rewards/quests/gameplay, and make a separate mode with a proper rotation for current content. No one would mind that, because that "limited" content would still be there.

Instead, limited jobs are a disguised "old dungeon revival" from WoW with fancy animations. Especially for people who wanted Beastmaster as a regular job, that could have been done. I think that's a shame.

[Nestama]

There's quite literally nothing stopping SE from making it a real job. You can keep the specific rewards/quests/gameplay, and make a separate mode with a proper rotation for current content. No one would mind that, because that "limited" content would still be there.

Instead, limited jobs are a disguised "old dungeon revival" from WoW with fancy animations. Especially for people who wanted Beastmaster as a regular job, that could have been done. I think that's a shame.

Issue with making them a real job is that you will have to take away the one thing that set them apart from other Jobs in FFV/FFXI. BLU will not learn spells from monsters (only from Job quests and then eventually from just levelling up. Spells will be cycled out per expansion) and you will not catch monsters in Jugs, instead being given a set similar to SMN that you cycle through your rotation (sheep, crab, vulture).

[Allistar]

Issue with making them a real job is that you will have to take away the one thing that set them apart from other Jobs in FFV/FFXI. BLU will not learn spells from monsters (only from Job quests and then eventually from just levelling up. Spells will be cycled out per expansion) and you will not catch monsters in Jugs, instead being given a set similar to SMN that you cycle through your rotation (sheep, crab, vulture).

This was not always the case in XIV, we didn't just level up and get abilities or spells, so it is very possible that it can be implemented for BU and BST and any other jobs they plan on adding. Please stop talking as if everything in the game is absolute, changes happen all the time.

[Saraide]

I largely agree. However I feel like it could be less limited and still not cause any problems at all. Like why cant I use duty support as blue mage? Is it necessary to have the job always be 10 lvl behind or could they just use the 6.58 patch as level cap increase? Why arent blue mages allowed into old ultimates at all? Give them a token that only gives a blu glam if that's such a huge concern.

[Kemiko]

I am of a firm belief that there is an existing middle ground between what we got with Limited Blue Mage and what would've worked with a normal job that Blue Mage could've been. Hunting down spells for usage could've still been part of the job. Yoshida explained why they didn't do it and it was an asinine explanation to me. The desire to avoid players feeling like they have to have certain spells to play with others was wild when that sort of thing had been present since ARR launch. You needed Provoke to tank as a WAR, forcing you to level Gladiator, you needed Swiftcast as a healer forcing you to level Thaumaturge, you needed your job skills for literally every job forcing you to do your job quests (the amount of White Mages at max level back in ARR without Cure II was way too damn high). Point is, it's been present since the beginning, it's still present in some ways even now that it was wild to even hear it as a concern for BLU.

Hunting down the spells and filling out your book is part of the appeal of BLU. Now, whether or not those spells should just be reskins of existing ones is another discussion. It's a MMO and job balance is always scale. I don't think anyone in good faith can say with a straight face that a job should be identified by how absurdly OP it is or that it should be when placed in a multiplayer environment. Fun shenanigans BLU should have, but overshadowing other jobs doesn't have to be one of them. I absolutely believe the job could be balanced, still fun, and still have spell hunting be part of it while simultaneously being a normal job.

As for why I personally don't enjoy Limited Jobs? The biggest one being my friends who loved Blue Mage before it even existed in XIV wants to main it and they cannot. They can't play the MSQ as Blue Mage. They can't run roulettes as Blue Mage. They cannot play current content as Blue Mage. They cannot play Blue Mage in Field Zones such as Eureka or Bozja. They cannot play Blue Mage in any Deep Dungeon. They cannot play Blue Mage in PvP. They cannot play Blue Mage in Ultimates and they cannot use Blue Mage in normal Duty Finder situations. In order for them to play Blue Mage, they're restricted to solo play in the Carnival or are forced into preforms parties in limited situations or under undersize rules. Blue Mage is also always behind in levels and aren't given attention, if at all, until nearing the end of the expansions life cycle. For someone's favorite job, it doesn't make for a great experience.

[Saraide]

snip

I dont think it's that absurd to think a core feature of blue mage is its gamebreakingly powerful spells. Blue mage being locked out of duty roulettes is definitely questionable though since many jobs are already very much overpowered in normal content. Warrior is ridiculously powerful in regular dungeons, it just doesnt matter because it's regular dungeons.

[Kemiko]

I dont think it's that absurd to think a core feature of blue mage is its gamebreakingly powerful spells. Blue mage being locked out of duty roulettes is definitely questionable though since many jobs are already very much overpowered in normal content. Warrior is ridiculously powerful in regular dungeons, it just doesnt matter because it's regular dungeons.

I brought that up as that's commonly used as the reasoning for BLU being Limited when that's never something I felt in any previous Final Fantasy game for a Blue Mage. They're never felt any more or less powerful than any other job I could play as. The most absurdly powerful of them I feel didn't even use the name Blue Mage, they used the name Mime in Final Fantasy Tactics - the whole game of skills was available to them and they still fell behind to something like Calculator.

If we can take something like Black Mage and stick them to only 3 elements when historically Black Mages had way more spells - and more powerful spells - at their disposal but no one is looking at Black Mage and claiming it needs to be made Limited to be as OP as it was in other games, I think Blue Mage can easily still retain its identify of 'monster magic/enemy skills' while still being balanced.

[Saraide]

I brought that up as that's commonly used as the reasoning for BLU being Limited when that's never something I felt in any previous Final Fantasy game for a Blue Mage. They're never felt any more or less powerful than any other job I could play as. The most absurdly powerful of them I feel didn't even use the name Blue Mage, they used the name Mime in Final Fantasy Tactics - the whole game of skills was available to them and they still fell behind to something like Calculator.

If we can take something like Black Mage and stick them to only 3 elements when historically Black Mages had way more spells - and more powerful spells - at their disposal but no one is looking at Black Mage and claiming it needs to be made Limited to be as OP as it was in other games, I think Blue Mage can easily still retain its identify of 'monster magic/enemy skills' while still being balanced.

When I think of blue mage I think of ff9's blue mage with the lvl 5 death spell. That's my limited exposure to the job from other FF games. Additionally it seems to me that non-trash enemies in RPGs usually get access to abilities that are more powerful in a vacuum to balance out NPC enemies being inherently more exploitable. Therefore I expect any PC that uses enemy abilities to also be more powerful. Single player RPGs also dont really have to follow a rigid balance. I am very interested however how the job balance in ff11 looks like.

I definitely do understand though when you argue using monster magic by itself is already blue mage identity.

[Kemiko]

I am very interested however how the job balance in ff11 looks like.

I haven't delved into XI endgame activities in a while. Most of my playtime with it was in 2004 and then again around 2008 with the Wings of the Goddess as the latest expansion and BLU had been in the game for about 2 years when I got back into it. Was it a powerful job? Yes. Did everyone and their grandmother run it for all content? No. When I played heavily, FFXI wasn't structured like XIV was and was more like, Runescape, if I had to make an off-hand comparison. More grindy, more punishing, more time consuming, more teamwork required for basic progress.

As for recently, last time I touched FFXI with any seriousness was late 2022/early 2023 where BLU wasn't used in big fights at all. There's absolutely a. . .raid structure similar to extreme and savage raids of XIV. Zone into a place, fight a thing (or several things), win, leave and get currency rewards. BLU was mostly serving as a power-leveling job, to powerful level other peoples job to 99 and farm JP. Didn't see it much outside of that. BLU was also, supposedly, the best subjob for PLD and with the correct gear, JP, skills and spells PLD/BLU - iirc - was the best tank at the time. But it was also like, marginally the best tank and for the effort and time it required, was rarely deemed worth the investment.

Mind you, this is also a game where support jobs walk into a fight, stand off in narnia, lay down their buffs and just stand around doing nothing. The life of a Geomancer in XI. Always in demand but not exactly stellar gameplay.