Jobs Haven’t been as “classic” of late

[Wasselin]

I wanted Geomancer too. And Chemist could have some different gameplay. However a lot of the other "classic" jobs are upgraded versions of jobs we already have or are very similar in aesthetics to what we already have. So what would be the point in adding them? It just dilutes the identity of jobs we are playing as now unless they reinvent them the way they did Sage.

Basically any "classic" job they add at this point will need to be a reinvention. I want them to stay true to the Final Fantasy series as well, but part of that is the spirit of reinvention that the series has. I think they've done a great job of that with Pictomancer.

[Shougun]

“I hate to see shutdown of ideas”

Proceeds to strawman my point

I’m not saying BLM is GEO, I’m saying most of the classical jobs that don’t currently exist in the game don’t exist because

A) their mechanics wouldn’t work in the game/are already used by existing classes in the game (such as GEO’s terrain being very close to only really being a leylines equivalent if you tried to port it to 14)

B) are functionally visually very similar to an existing class in the game (again GEO is very similar to WHM sub level 80 which is still a very significant portion of what content people will play)

When you break down what GEO can’t use because of crossover with existing class design and aesthetic if they were still to build a class it wouldn’t remotely resemble actual GEO (similar to SGE in 14 doesn’t remotely resemble classic SGE), I guess I’m not opposed to building a random class and calling it GEO but is really what people who want GEO want

You said if you don't care about names then geomancer is blm (with nuance that made it obvious it probably didn't mean perfect 1:1, but not enough info to know if you meant only vaguely, hence my questioning- as I didn't think they were similar/disagreed with the comparison). Not a straw man, please look into the fallacy further before accusing. And yes I do believe they/you are shutting down the opportunity to present desires in the name of not effectively investigating a desire. We don't have what they want, and if you want to argue very vaguely counts as representation then we can do so about it all (NIN and VPR, RDM and BLM too similar, or some thing silly like that).

To be clear and fair, I didn't think you meant it fully and more figuratively or vaguely, but that is why I questioned it further as I don't believe you meant it to that level, yet if you don't mean it to that level it means we have room for the desire of a player who wants Geo. If there is room then why in Thal would someone lazily shut it down (perhaps too pejorative.. but it does feel very hand waving method), maybe rather say nothing or attempt to elucidate an idea that can work and be interesting would have been better...

Your point b I feel is weird given to me that proves there is room for Geo not lack of it. Literally not represented in game last a temporary fancy. Player wants the concept represented, it's not (or 'no longer'). That should be end of story in terms of whether it's logical someone wants something or not. Geo terrain is not really leylines beyond the idea there is a positional. That's like saying sacred soil is effectively geomancer, the whole job represented in scholar due to one spell because of a positional magic with terrain sounding spell. That's really vague player desire matching.

All that being said too especially in context of CaptainLagbeard's comment since the positional may be paramount or it may be backseat concern to the idea of manipulating terrain (earthen, mostly, resources). On Reddit I saw a number rephrase Geomancer as Druid, which obviously means they were taking the nature and terrain, and perhaps English name, to a further extent. Shutdown the conversation and we lose the ability to hear what was what they loved/would like to love. All because we have the most vague and temporary ideas represented. If the purpose of attempting to end the desire is because you don't want to see it, or you rather see something else, at least do that.. just saying "we have that at home" (meme reference, not quote of person) when we don't is not good.

Edit: To be clear-ish..? I'm trying lol. I don't believe anyone had malice, just that the behavior of hand waiving a desire that could be discussed and is obviously desired just seems like a really unfortunate affair. I don't even have a horse in the race for geomancer (nor did I for reaper when I made those arguments, though I do like that job now), just... Why shut it down when there is obvious room to work, even if the name may need to be given some love (as it's used). Akin to many other situations, like when people shutdown better summoner visuals, dark job, tribe opportunities, or nuance in narrative... (examples where I experienced people telling me lore says an idea can't work, and then SE did opposite of what they thought was a idea ending concept). What is the value of it, especially when SE has shown they can find that line and walk it if asked and would like to.

[StarRosie]

Yoshi is purposefully distancing himself from "the classics".

I'm guessing he wants to leave his footprint on FF as a whole by "inventing" new stuff without straying too far.

The man has already left his footprint on FF as a franchise. There's nothing for him to aspire for in that category. He came in with a team and in a year, pulled a deeply failing MMO out of the dumpster fire and turned it into one of core pillars holding SE up. Is the game in a rough state right now? Yes. Does it currently have some core issues that need addressing? Also yes. But none of that should at all discount or "Counteract" the work he did.

They said the reason they are distancing from the classic jobs is because trying to bring every classic in, is very restrictive in terms of job design. Entirely new jobs allow them to create things that are more unique. But we'll see how that goes with Viper.

[Naple]

Why is this a big deal? FF14 doesn't have to be a pure conglomerate of previous Final Fantasy references. It can have some original ideas.

[Chasingstars]

It's almost like Yoshi P has stated on the record that the Dev team wants to move away from classic FF jobs to do more unique things. I don't know why people are so surprised that they are following that and continue to hype themselves up for super classic jobs. It's probably only going to get even more unique from here too. Which I am fine with. Sure pulling things from a series that's been built is good, but FF is also known for each entry being unique in its own way. Sure they have some staples, reuse names and stuff, but they also bring other things. I'm glad the Dev team wants to bring their own ideas to the FF series.

Which is fine they want to not necessarily be bound by old jobs. But I hope the kits are more imaginative than they are currently pushing out. As they could make ten new jobs in a row that have no ties to final fantasy, but if they all play relatively similarly to what already exists, they won't really stand out.