Jobs Haven’t been as “classic” of late

[DamianFatale]

I’m not hating on Reaper, Sage, Viper, or Pictomancer. However, I have had a problem with classic job staples being pushed aside, and relegated to limited jobs of late. With that said, my complaint isn’t 100% on solid ground.

Reaper pulled from old Dark Knight, and a job name/style previously only used by enemies In the series. So it technically is classic, it just wasn’t ever established. It is more original.

Sage is a classic job reinvented, so it’s definitely classic, but not in the way we are used to with the classic job. Sage in past games was basically super Red Mage without limits due to using two types of magic, so that obviously wasn’t going to happen in an MMO.

Viper is completely original, though might have some qualities inspired by Zidane. We aren’t 100% sure yet, but that seems to be player thought.

Pictomancer is TECHNICALLY a classic job, but it was only used once in 1994, unless you count Bravely Default II.

My point is, these jobs are all obscure, which I don’t mind, but I feel like Square Enix has delved off the deep end here. It would be a good time if more common jobs that are currently missing were added. Some players would argue there are no more ideas, but that isn’t true.

- Geomancer

- Chemist

- Oracle

- Runefencer/Spellsword/Rune Knight

- Corsair

- Ranger


I could go on and on. I have no problem with new ideas, I just wish we got something classic again, and that it wasn’t relegated to limited job style gameplay. We have got four mostly original job ideas in the last two expansions, but the “classic” jobs that come up in players minds historically have been relegated to limited jobs. It doesn’t feel fair that after so many fan requests, and how long it has taken, that Beastmaster and Blue Mage won’t be real jobs in the game. After it’s been so long for a missing iconic job. I’m not saying Sage and Pictomancer aren’t iconic, they just weren’t that common in fans minds.

I could settle on one classic job, and one original job next expansion, to cater to both sides, because I feel like lately the image of XIV jobs is drifting a bit into completely foreign territory, which isn’t a bad thing. It just doesn’t respect fan nostalgia, and the wish for iconic job staples that haven’t returned. I’d hate to see all those highly requested jobs relegated to a limited job role in favor of only original main jobs for future expansions, or them not appearing at all.

Another fact that is we only get new full jobs every two years, so when new job slots are occupied by only entirely new to FFXIV ideas, classic highly requested jobs take far longer to be released. I wish there was a solution to this, but I know the devs struggle to add three jobs at once in an expansion like they did in Heavensward. :/

They technically tried adding a full new job in 2.0, but that clearly didn’t work the best for dev team either. Perhaps now that it’s it’s over a decade ahead, they could revisit the concept of a full new job later in an expansion? I still doubt it though, because balancing issues, and the stress that new jobs add on currently developed content. I feel like we are just screwed by the way the devs handle jobs until they decide to grace us with an old fan favorite once again.

[AshDeschain]

I'd rather the Dev team design and work on jobs they actually are interested in creating than be beholden to whatever jobs are considered "classic FF jobs." Let them make stuff they want to make. That's how you get the potential for some passion to bleed through and we get the chance for something cool and unique.

[DamianFatale]

I'd rather the Dev team design and work on jobs they actually are interested in creating than be beholden to whatever jobs are considered "classic FF jobs." Let them make stuff they want to make. That's how you get the potential for some passion to bleed through and we get the chance for something cool and unique.

I don’t disagree, but this is an old established fan base, and at some point if you don’t cater to those fans, you start to make people lose interest. A reveal of an iconic classic job is a brilliant way to bring in interest. This game is a Final Fantasy theme park after all. I love original content, but there should be an even blend of both new and old. That’s what makes this MMO so great. It honors the legacy of Final Fantasy, but also stretches the ideas of what that even means in a new age. Classic and old should be intertwined and respected.

[Supersnow845]

I’d actually be genuinely curious to know what percentage of the 14 playerbase is either positively or negatively affected by references to old FF games

Me personally I’ve barely played any of them and I don’t really care to play to any of them, so whether content is new or a redo of an existing job is literally less than meaningless to me, the only time I actively get annoyed at references is in times like the 6.1-6.5 story where I feel like I’m actively at a disadvantage for not playing 4, otherwise I couldn’t care less

[MistakeNot]

I don’t disagree, but this is an old established fan base, and at some point if you don’t cater to those fans, you start to make people lose interest. A reveal of an iconic classic job is a brilliant way to bring in interest. This game is a Final Fantasy theme park after all. I love original content, but there should be an even blend of both new and old. That’s what makes this MMO so great. It honors the legacy of Final Fantasy, but also stretches the ideas of what that even means in a new age. Classic and old should be intertwined and respected.

FF14 already copies far too much from other Final Fantasy games instead of making its own things. Lots of people play FF14 without being FF fans in general, and for these people too much references to the old games can be off-putting.
I don't know what jobs are considered classic, and I don't care if they import those jobs or if they make up some entirely new jobs, as long as the jobs work well in FF14.

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm an old established fan and if they had shown Geomancer I'd have gone straight back to bed.

The issue is, they've taken some of the things that those jobs you listed are known for, and merged them into designs/aesthetics of other jobs. For example, RuneFencer is merged into DRK via Blood Weapon, Time Mage into AST somewhat, and GEO into WHM (until they took the elements out and gave us generic twinkly lights). And IDK about anyone else, but I'd find it quite distasteful to have a job (say, WHM) have an identity built in this game for several years (use the 'nature' aligned elements of Wind, Water, Earth to attack), then remove that part of the job's identity, only to then bring it back on another job. It sucked for Warlocks in WOW to lose their demon form Metamorphosis, only for Demon Hunters to get added to the game years later, it'd suck here too.

Also, we have to consider that, with an old job comes an established identity. For example, if GEO came out, I would expect it to be entirely based on casting a skill called Geomancy, and said skill's effect is modified by standing in certain zones you place around the arena. Effectively, Ley Lines: the job. Because that's what I perceive GEO's established identity to be, attacks that modify their effect based on the terrain you're in. But given how much we have to move about in raids to do mechanics, that'd play awful with raid design, so they'd either have to alter the gameplay (infringing on the identity and risking 'this isn't a GEO it's just a BLM with reskinned elements' sort of complaints), have the gameplay be compliant with the identity and suffer 'this plays like ass because I can't stand in my Mountain-LeyLines puddle during this mechanic and it costs me DPS', or just not do that job because there's no winning that situation, and it looks like they went for option 3. Fine by me, I was much more intrigued by the reveal of Gunbreaker as a job than I was for Samurai, for example.

Lastly, we're in a weird time of the game where there's a growing sentiment of 'the devs need to make more unique new content, instead of reskins and following the same formula', so 'do the jobs from the older games, instead of unique new jobs with never-before seen identities' is a bit counter to that. In fact, with the current atmosphere around 'we need unique stuff', I'd expect a reveal of something like a GEO to be insanely divisive. GEO fans would like it yes, but the people who don't care for GEO would be extremely turned off because of the 'wasted slot' phenomena you hear with Smash Bros. I'd much rather the devs made unique jobs like GNB or RPR than just cowtowing to nostalgiabaiting

[StarRosie]

The issue is that some classic jobs...are not as easy to translate into XIV as something like BLM or RDM or DRG. While I would love for some classic jobs to get in, I do accept that some either don't have enough to get into XIV without effectively being reinvented into...not that job. Or are just such a niche and restrictive concept that making it fit would be very hard. The huge fervor over the new caster possibly being Green Mage had me scratching my head because GRM over the course of the franchise...often has ZERO offensive spells and is meant to be a support caster for WHMs, using things like Shell, Protect, and other barrier abilities we've already yeeted out of the game. And we have to try and avoid overall design overlap, if we added ranger, what would its weapon be? We already have a bow user.

There's also the fact that we had jobs often roll multiple jobs into one. Like Astro or WAR. And if we added something like GEO (My legit favorite job in the franchise.) I ask...which GEO? FF3 GEO? FF5? FF11? If we go off the FF3 Geomancer, I'll remind ya that Terrain allowed GEO to spit out (At no MP cost) spells ranging from Flame Burst to BLACK HOLE. But these effects were dependent on your zones. The same goes mostly for FF5's GEO but...hoooo boy. Does FF5's GEO get a lot of busted stuff via Gaia. Two instant death attacks, multiple status inflicting attacks, one that reduces all enemies' HP to 1. The list goes on. If we take the one from FF11, I'd be down for that because I mained it when I played 11. But also, with how they introduced GEO via the AST storyline, it has faced heavy pushback as "Just CNJ but with a bell."

This isn't me trying to dismiss the idea overall, in fact I overall agree that more classic jobs would be fun. I'd KILL for GEO or a proper Time Mage. but from a developer standpoint, I can see the issues with implementing jobs like GEO or Time Mage. Jobs like Green Mage would only be Green Mage in name only. Iconic jobs like BLM or DRG are easy to implement. But once ya dig deeper, things get a bit...harder. I'm genuinely surprised they went with Pictomancer and it feels like it sorta captures the spirit of it. But things like Mime? Or Puppet Master? I got nothing man. And let's also be brutally honest here. Due to stories in FFXIV, like Edda's tragic tale. Jobs like Necromancer are just straight off the table.

Again, I agree with your point overall, I just...struggle to think how we could implement more obscure jobs or jobs that fill a very specific niche.

[ForsakenRoe]

Due to stories in FFXIV, like Edda's tragic tale. Jobs like Necromancer are just straight off the table.

Moreso cultural differences on this one, but it does bring up a good point to mention: There was a post I saw on here a few years back where someone made a whole design sheet for a Necro Healer, with potencies, CDs, everything was balanced and written down. And like 75% of the responses to this incredibly detailed labour of love?

'no what are you doing, Necromancer should be a caster, not a healer'

The fact that so much media portrays that archetype as a caster role means that it's 'identity' built across all media is so strong it's hard for people to look past it. So, surely the same applies to jobs from previous FF games being brought here? Which means that a GEO that 'uses earth/wind/water to attack' and doesn't have any interaction with the terrain (either via the arena itself dictating the 'terrain type', or placing 'zones' as mentioned before) will not 'feel like GEO' for some (like me). But with something like a GNB, or a RPR, there's nothing from previous games to go off of, really. For GNB, for example, we know 'press R1 at the right time for more damage' and 'haha funny Renzokuken LB', that's kinda all that needs to be there for it to feel like a Gunblade user. And we have them, via Continuation. All we needed for RPR was 'edgy and uses a weapon that is edgy, preferably a scythe', and we got that

[Vrankyl]

It's almost like Yoshi P has stated on the record that the Dev team wants to move away from classic FF jobs to do more unique things. I don't know why people are so surprised that they are following that and continue to hype themselves up for super classic jobs. It's probably only going to get even more unique from here too. Which I am fine with. Sure pulling things from a series that's been built is good, but FF is also known for each entry being unique in its own way. Sure they have some staples, reuse names and stuff, but they also bring other things. I'm glad the Dev team wants to bring their own ideas to the FF series.

[StarRosie]

Moreso cultural differences on this one,

I feel like it's both, the story and lore has overall set up that Necromancy is just a massive taboo, so us just turning into a Necromancer and folks eventually being fine with it would be a tad...jarring? But yeah. Cultural differences is very likely the bigger one. My mistake there.

but it does bring up a good point to mention: There was a post I saw on here a few years back where someone made a whole design sheet for a Necro Healer, with potencies, CDs, everything was balanced and written down. And like 75% of the responses to this incredibly detailed labour of love?

'no what are you doing, Necromancer should be a caster, not a healer'

I remember this...it was weird to watch unfold. Like, clear and obvious effort was put into it and folks were spitting on it cause it wasn't the Necromancer they remember. Overall, I'd say we make the same point in the end. Implementing classic jobs would cause issues, such as compromising parts of that job's identity to fit into XIV's gameplay. New jobs just allow more freedom. Again, I would love to see some classics return but also see how they just...can't. Which is sorta where limited jobs come in. They offer a way to make them work but not everyone is a fan of those. Despite BLU currently playing exactly how I'd imagine BLU, instead of the clunky BLU looking job that gets to play with everyone else.