Quitting ffxiv for good

[Ath192]

I don't blame you. This is how a company loses longtime customers that brought in a lot of revenue. By only caring about potential new customers and not taking care of the ones they do have.

[Hasrat]

I don't blame you. This is how a company loses longtime customers that brought in a lot of revenue. By only caring about potential new customers and not taking care of the ones they do have.

Counterpoint: Catering to established players will significantly stunt game growth by dismissing the needs of new players. Established players have already been "hooked." It doesn't matter how well you "take care" of them, the population will naturally diminish over time. Every online service knows this, and every online service knows they need to maintain a steady flow of new customers to replace the ones that naturally leave. And in recognizing the need for new customers, they must be ready to adapt to what new customers are looking for.

In adapting to the needs of said necessary new customers, established users may find themselves dissatisfied with the product, and will naturally leave, fueling the cycle all over again.

There's literally no avoiding that outcome without declaring yourself stagnant and immutable, a state that's as good as dead for any online service.

Adapt, or get left behind.

[ZavosEsperian]

Counterpoint: Catering to established players will significantly stunt game growth by dismissing the needs of new players. Established players have already been "hooked." It doesn't matter how well you "take care" of them, the population will naturally diminish over time. Every online service knows this, and every online service knows they need to maintain a steady flow of new customers to replace the ones that naturally leave. And in recognizing the need for new customers, they must be ready to adapt to what new customers are looking for.

This argument doesn't make any logical sense. Yes, there will always exist churn inside of any given player base, but that does not mean you ignore the needs of established players as you need to cater to them to reduce the total number of players lost to churn. If too many established players start becoming dissatisfied, it results in new players not having positive interactions with the established player base, which will diminish the total number of new players who stick around to become established players. Subscription-based MMOs in particular can be heavily affected by this as the inability to maintain a stable player base will directly cause the game's revenues stream to be reduced.

This is particularly more evident for new players should they get to endgame, as a lot of content this expansion cycle has not done a good job at remaining evergreen during the expansion's life cycle. The only saving grace for new players is the ample amount of old content that is now able to be either completed solo or done in small groups they now can do without the MSQ looming over them.

With that being said, this game is not strictly subscription-based as far as revenue is concerned, and thus losses from churn can be offset to a fault via cash shop purchases, where there has been a relatively consistent release cycle of outfits and emotes.

[Commander_Justitia]

If too many established players start becoming dissatisfied, it results in new players not having positive interactions with the established player base, which will diminish the total number of new players who stick around to become established players.

Thus they make the game more casual and easy to get into, to attract more new players. They will double-down instead of going back. It is Yoshi-P design philosophy since 1.0, while it saved 1.0, I don't think it will save 7.0 and beyond. Its still a great product and will be fun to play, but I doubt it will bind people for more than a few months till next addon, if it is too easy and "same".


As sidenote: I saw a DRK video of its former/removed skills recently, it actually makes me sad watching. Such cool fcking animations, badass moves - and they removed it, because it was too niche and unique. Wasted potential if you ask me.


I think what keeps a lot of longtime players subbed is the housing market atm lol.

But SE notices it in the operating income already. MMO net sales are down, despise a weak yen. And as you can see mobile games etc. are a way bigger part of their business. MMO income seems steady and gives it stability, but the real profit they make with other titles.
That crashed their stock price by 15% earlier the year, as they became barely profitable.



So in the end, I don't think they will care too much about it regarding MMO, it is still within the expectations... business as usual.

[VerdeLuck]

This argument doesn't make any logical sense. Yes, there will always exist churn inside of any given player base, but that does not mean you ignore the needs of established players as you need to cater to them to reduce the total number of players lost to churn. If too many established players start becoming dissatisfied, it results in new players not having positive interactions with the established player base, which will diminish the total number of new players who stick around to become established players. Subscription-based MMOs in particular can be heavily affected by this as the inability to maintain a stable player base will directly cause the game's revenues stream to be reduced.

This is particularly more evident for new players should they get to endgame, as a lot of content this expansion cycle has not done a good job at remaining evergreen during the expansion's life cycle. The only saving grace for new players is the ample amount of old content that is now able to be either completed solo or done in small groups they now can do without the MSQ looming over them.

With that being said, this game is not strictly subscription-based as far as revenue is concerned, and thus losses from churn can be offset to a fault via cash shop purchases, where there has been a relatively consistent release cycle of outfits and emotes.

It does make sense, there is always a slow decay of older players leaving the game. They have kids, families and can't play, are in graduate school and have no time. They quit and the playerbase slowly decays.
The only way to consistently keep things going is to bring in new players at a constant rate.
Think about all the reddit and forums threads over the years of "is it still a good idea to start X MMO in 2023?". There is a fear that for any MMO that caters to older players, new players get the shaft and can never be "equal" to the old guard.
You have a huge wall of content to overcome, massive amounts of tricks and mechanics to learn, and it will take you years before you are on a good enough level to even attempt the endgame content in the MMO.
Not to mention hearing constantly from any old player how the game used to be harder in their day and the achievements they enjoyed are now meaningless when you do them.

You have to cater to new players, offer QoL to them, offer ways to get them into the game, deal with the things they care about. Otherwise, they see it as a waste of time to invest the years it takes to reach endgame in your game, and thy're going go play a newer game that just started.
There must be a constant reaching out to new players or your population will stagnate. It will annoy old players and make them leave, but you gain more in new players than you lose in disillusioned old players who want the game to go back to how it was in 2014.

[Commander_Justitia]

You have to cater to new players, offer QoL to them, offer ways to get them into the game, deal with the things they care about. Otherwise, they see it as a waste of time to invest the years it takes to reach endgame in your game


It will annoy old players and make them leave, but you gain more in new players than you lose in disillusioned old players who want the game to go back to how it was in 2014.

Yeah, I can agree with that, though if you see the game lvl1-80 as catchup that should be happening faster and easier, to streamline it, give it QoL etc. then 81-90 should still be a challenge or more engaging. Though I don't think much changes. I would open up the door for more endgame skill customization, maybe making crossskills more optional again and more unique. Idk, just something...giving healers option to get cleric stance back, or removing heal spells for dmg spells. Gear that has set bonus. These concepts are totally missing, or only exist in eureka/bozja, where its pretty fun.

[VerdeLuck]

Yeah, I can agree with that, though if you see the game lvl1-80 as catchup that should be happening faster and easier, to streamline it, give it QoL etc. then 81-90 should still be a challenge or more engaging. Though I don't think much changes. I would open up the door for more endgame skill customization, maybe making crossskills more optional again and more unique. Idk, just something...giving healers option to get cleric stance back, or removing heal spells for dmg spells. Gear that has set bonus. These concepts are totally missing, or only exist in eureka/bozja, where its pretty fun.

You did not read my post at all, I said the exact opposite in my last line than what you're inferring. We are not going back to 2014 or 2016 job design. It's just a fact. If that upsets you then there's the door, there are plenty of MMOs that will cater to what you want. Cleric stance is not coming back ever, TP is not coming back, cross class skills are not coming back, neither is racial bonuses, gearset bonuses, dangerous overworld traversal, or forced grouping for MSQ prgress. It's not coming back.
We are not going back to less intuitive systems to appeal to longtime players who will sub anyways, that's the entire point. I'm not in any position at SE but it's plain to see they are not going to go back to old design to appeal to old players when there are plenty of new players who are happy with the current system or would be happier with more streamlined or QoL systems.

[ZavosEsperian]

It does make sense, there is always a slow decay of older players leaving the game. They have kids, families and can't play, are in graduate school and have no time. They quit and the playerbase slowly decays.
The only way to consistently keep things going is to bring in new players at a constant rate.
Think about all the reddit and forums threads over the years of "is it still a good idea to start X MMO in 2023?". There is a fear that for any MMO that caters to older players, new players get the shaft and can never be "equal" to the old guard.
You have a huge wall of content to overcome, massive amounts of tricks and mechanics to learn, and it will take you years before you are on a good enough level to even attempt the endgame content in the MMO.
Not to mention hearing constantly from any old player how the game used to be harder in their day and the achievements they enjoyed are now meaningless when you do them.

You have to cater to new players, offer QoL to them, offer ways to get them into the game, deal with the things they care about. Otherwise, they see it as a waste of time to invest the years it takes to reach endgame in your game, and thy're going go play a newer game that just started.
There must be a constant reaching out to new players or your population will stagnate. It will annoy old players and make them leave, but you gain more in new players than you lose in disillusioned old players who want the game to go back to how it was in 2014.

I think I wasn't clear on this, but I never said to not cater to newer players. Churn is inevitable and cannot be denied, but you do need to take some measures to limit the number of established players lost to churn instead of not doing anything at all, which was how I interpreted the prefaced argument.

[Hasrat]

I think I wasn't clear on this, but I never said to not cater to newer players. Churn is inevitable and cannot be denied, but you do need to take some measures to limit the number of established players lost to churn instead of not doing anything at all, which was how I interpreted the prefaced argument.

It may not be an entirely accurate assessment, but, I do feel the idea of established players being "hooked" already is what leads devs to not needing to spend much consideration on their needs. They already know the churn is going to bleed players. Addressing their concerns is an investment, and one that might not see adequate pay-off. They might stem the flow, but will such actions retain enough players to justify the expense? As well, once they've got these players in the game and established, one of the biggest things keeping them hooked is that sunk cost feeling. Devs know even without doing anything, many players will continue playing just because they've already played for so long.

It's brutal, but it's business. Money spent trying to keep some players around a few extra years before the churn claims them can be put to better use developing something to hook a new batch of players that might stick around for several years longer.

And, frankly, all of this is a rather optimistic outlook. As has been pointed out elsewhere, gaming trends as a whole are in flux. Where we are now is a far cry from where we started. There's no going back, and even adapting to "today" sets you behind if you can't get yourself ahead of "tomorrow"s trends.

[Myrany]

It may not be an entirely accurate assessment, but, I do feel the idea of established players being "hooked" already is what leads devs to not needing to spend much consideration on their needs. They already know the churn is going to bleed players. Addressing their concerns is an investment, and one that might not see adequate pay-off. They might stem the flow, but will such actions retain enough players to justify the expense? As well, once they've got these players in the game and established, one of the biggest things keeping them hooked is that sunk cost feeling. Devs know even without doing anything, many players will continue playing just because they've already played for so long.

It's brutal, but it's business. Money spent trying to keep some players around a few extra years before the churn claims them can be put to better use developing something to hook a new batch of players that might stick around for several years longer.

And, frankly, all of this is a rather optimistic outlook. As has been pointed out elsewhere, gaming trends as a whole are in flux. Where we are now is a far cry from where we started. There's no going back, and even adapting to "today" sets you behind if you can't get yourself ahead of "tomorrow"s trends.

Let me add one more thing to the why Devs don't cater to existing characters list. They have our money. We already paid for the game and many have already grabbed why we want from the cash shop. Yes we pay a sub but that is true of any paying player new or old. New players are fresh cash cows both in purchasing the game and cash shop purchases. They make more money off of them.

Cynical ... probably but as you say it is business