Thoughts on changes made to the game

[Sindele]

I dont think it has. Sure, we've always dodged AoEs, but we've had other mechanics in harder difficulties that didn't have a "Go here to dodge thing or prevent overlap".

But at the same time as Ifrit: Garuda, Titan, ADS, Twintania...

Most mechanics, once strategy optimization takes place, get reduced down to choreography. And to be fair: it's hard to avoid this between the 8 person limit and the underpinnings of XIV's system design. (For better or worse, this is also a consequence of the healing paradigm and intimately tied to a lot of the healer complaints in recent years, particularly after homogenization broke the back of AST cards and green DPS in general.)

[Kes13a]

The TOS is a problem. And without trying to sound like a certain someone who frequents the forums, they do not enforce their "3rd party tools are cheating" bit. They, however, will take action if you are even just a little frustrated or in disagreement. I've had a friend who just started the game after EW released. In Sastasha, he was only single pulling and a DPS told him to pull everything. He said he wasn't going to. He was reported and had to talk to a GM shortly after. He tried the game and at the first disagreement someone had with him, his first interaction with another player, and he got a strike on his account. He has not played since.

the ToS is fine. I chat all the time and havent gotten any warning or anything.

had the same scenario in a dungeon, dps wanted bigger pulls, tank said no, they werent comfortable doing so. everyone was fine with that. I did say that I was comfortable in the dungeon healing and he could pull as much as he wanted, I was rewarded with a "F you". could I have reported, sure, but reality is, not everyone can "self police" so the ToS is required for people who really cannot be civil. thats the only people the ToS is a "problem" for. I would say a majority of people dont run into issues with it. personally I somehow doubt it was as simple as your friend saying he wasnt going to pull more. but thats because my experience on any game forum is half the story is always left out....usually the part where the angelic player who was reported had a full blown meltdown on someone else

[Sindele]

Easier than what, though? The average difficulty of current-day dungeons is one that expects considerably more of the player than even the pre-Duty Support versions of ARR and HW dungeons. I don't think that's really even a matter of opinion, aside from some nitpicking about whether clearer telegraphs offsets higher mechanical difficulty. (If you want to argue that some of those dungeons took an unfair beating in the Duty Support transition, that's a fair - but different - argument.)

If Yoshi-P disagrees (and that's taking this claim on faith because I really don't care to go research it), well, he's entitled to, but I'm chalking that one up to another case of producers and directors saying things that don't mesh with reality. He ain't the one designing the dungeons, after all.

[Mostly_Raxus]

dont mind me, I'm just here to watch them go off topic having a internet karen episode.

[Avoidy]

It does suck how if you enjoy casual content, the devs sort of treat you like a toddler without thumbs and make every mechanic irrelevant. And since the jobs have been pretty homogenized at this point, there's no sense of like... "sure, the content's a little dull, but actually playing the job is fun so I'm okay." It's just a boring 123 job in a boring encounter. Back when I played tera, I'd do the full range of difficulties because just playing the game was enjoyable for me. I'd tank and heal easy stuff. I'd tank and heal hard stuff. And because the classes and the gameplay were enjoyable, I never felt bored even though the content felt easy or frustrating. But in XIV, when I hop in the partyfinder and do some EX content with randos and we're wiping over and over again, the retries feel exhausting because the rotations are so boring and the encounter design is so scripted. It's literally just re-running the same scenario over and over again until we wipe because assigning clock spots and small groups and expecting people to just remember them is too much for some people. Idk, I'm in a weird spot. I like being able to just jump into the roulette and do stuff and clear it. But it's so insultingly simplistic; it's like they think anyone who does this stuff is playing the game without thumbs. Meanwhile, the more challenging stuff doesn't even feel particularly enjoyable. It just takes longer because you're all held hostage until That One Guy who doesn't know where to stand finally learns where to stand, and in the meantime you're just redoing the same dance over and over and over.

I want engaging supportive elements. I want to feel like I'm actually helping my team. I want normal mode dutyfinder content with mechanics that -- while simple -- might do more than barely tickle if you don't do them. I want fight scripts that are faster; it's nuts how in something like Aglaia, the bosses take so long to get to the stacking mechanics that in 2023 they're dead before they finish "teaching" the mechs. Maybe speed it up a little bit? Or in Thaleia, the first boss really takes the cake. He spends like 20 years winding up the most obvious tidal wave telegraph ever, and you don't even have to do it; you can just arms length it. Or the arrow guy, he literally has a mechanic that points to where the bad spot is going to be for a century. It just feels like the devs are afraid to do anything engaging for their casual content (which is a BIG chunk of the game's content) because every time they do there's this really loud minority that shows up to complain about it being too punishing like they did with cid or the EW solo duty, or too long like they did for the nier raids, etc. etc.

[Jojoya]

Powercreep has made you able to skip mechanics, so why make the mechanics in the first place.

Happens in every game with power progression and it's always worse during the extended end game period when players are generally focused on grinding out the power progression.

Stats are power. Knowledge is power. Skill is power. As those increase, what was originally a challenge becomes easy.

You won't be skipping those mechanics when you lack the needed power. You will start skipping them once you've acquired what is needed and the rest of your party has as well.

There is no danger in dungeons, most normal trials and now in 24 man content.

Tell that to those that are dying despite trying their best because they're still learning.

Making everything too easy develops a toxic mindset as well (class responsibility, laziness, babying players, no responsibility over anything)

No one is being babied by the game. The toxic "everyone should be on my level or uninstall" mindset comes from the toxic players who have forgotten their own beginnings in gaming.

Shouldn't the fun be having to learn completely different playstyle so you have varying gameplay?

Did you ever stop to consider that not everyone finds the same things fun and different people play the game for different reasons?

People don't need to have everything maxed.

Most players don't, nor are they trying to.

Chat interactions are shunned because of the tos rules and the rules are babying people. Shouldn't we try to let people resolve situations themselves

I chat with others frequently. No problems.

If rules are babying people, it's because some people are acting like small children instead of mature adults.

Most people already are resolving situations themselves. If it's going to the GMs, it's usually because someone isn't interested in resolution and continues to behave like a small child. Act like a baby, get treated like one.

and have natural interactions rather than try to limit them so much that you dont even know if you get banned for having a normal argument.

Being insulting and confrontational, and provoking others is not "natural interaction". Usually the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and walk away if you're at the point you want to insult someone.

People grow when they get to resolve things themselves rather than trying to limit them with arbitrary rules that make them feel caged or worse yet

What arbitrarily rules?

Again, you're given the chance to resolve things yourself. If you're constantly on the receiving end of a stern talk with a GM, sounds like you're not interested in growing.

make a toxic mentality possible where people act like they are helpful but are actually just passive agressive.

I think most people get passive aggressive when dealing with someone who refuses to grow up. It's a fairly natural reaction when frustration sets in.

Devs chasing max balance/caving into player "demands" is the thing that made all of this happen.

Which is true in some cases but not in others.

You seem to forget that the developers are employees of a large for-profit corporation. If something is unpopular enough that it's driving away players and the profits those players would otherwise generate, they're going to make some of the requested changes when they feel it's reasonable.

FF14 blew up because it was a good game before the changes and because of WoW exodus, not because the devs made the gameplay braindead

The WoW exodus did not make FFXIV a good game. The WoW exodus occurred because WoW had been a bad game and WoW streamers decided to give FFXIV a try, finding it to be a more interesting game than they had expected.

If Shadowbringers was good and Endwalker is braindead, exactly what changed in the gameplay between the two expansions that has you upset?

Or is it just that you became a better player over time and so the game no longer feels as challenging to you? Many underestimate their own growth as a player. Where they think the game has gotten easier, more likely the difference is that they have gotten better at playing it. The new player rushing through MSQ is not going to consider a dungeon like The Dead Ends easier than Stone Vigil.

[Solakor]

You won't understand what I'm talking about if you didn't play before ShB because the big changes started after SB. The real ogs will argue that it went downhill after HW but i think that's a bit too far even for me

[Jojoya]

You won't understand what I'm talking about if you didn't play before ShB because the big changes started after SB. The real ogs will argue that it went downhill after HW but i think that's a bit too far even for me

And it begins.

If you need context, I started playing at Heavensward's release though I didn't get really into the game until near the end of that expansion because I was still playing a lot of WoW back then.

I understand that things have changed in the game. Again, different people play and enjoy the game for different reasons. You don't like the changes they've made over time. Other players do.

The game will never go back to what it was to you if for no other reason than you are no longer new to the game. You've built up experience that can't be taken away from you short of some serious head trauma causing loss of memory. You've acquired skill that you won't lose until you end up with physical ailments that slow your reaction times and ability to button mash quickly. Those things allow you adjust faster to changes and new mechanics that SE implements in future content than newer players will be able to adjust. If you insist on only equipping the highest ilvl gear instead of doing the content MINE, you're making the content that much easier for yourself.

If the game is no longer giving you the experience you want, it's time to move to another game. Reset your personal power progression (knowledge + skill + stats) and begin fresh. Sometimes that's what people really need - an opportunity to master something new. Games that you've been playing for several years are rarely going to offer that.

What i often do now as a healer is be lazy just stand in sh*t (unless extreme and above) because lets be honest most aoe's at this point hardly do any damage >_>

Because the combat content below EX trial level is intended to be suitable for everyone regardless of knowledge and skill.

I don't know why you would expect more.

[Solakor]

You don't seem to understand that the game has changed so much from what it was that the enjoyment of some people has gone down too much at this point that the game is starting to feel stale or downright bad.
It has nothing to do with experience when your job plays completely different from before and not in the good way.
Removing interactions from the kits/fights and upping potencies served 0 purpose other than make the game worse.

And to state the obvious I am playing other games. Also before you say, yes iv had breaks and last one was a year long.
It just feels weird that when you loved a game and it was doing well the devs decide to suddenly axe bits and pieces of the gameplay for no apparent reason.

Also before you say, Im only sending my feedback. I know it prolly does nothing.
But it seems more and more people are starting to see the flaws that the game has and how it could be better and that is why we are doing this.

[Jojoya]

You don't seem to understand that the game has changed so much from what it was that the enjoyment of some people has gone down too much at this point that the game is starting to feel stale or downright bad..

I do understand that some are not enjoying the game as much as they used you.

You're ignoring that some players, including veterans who have been playing the game longer than you, are enjoying it still.

I was addressing your complaints about content being too easy and babying players. I wasn't addressing your comments about job design but even those are a matter of opinion. Some find some of the current job designs better than the old ones, some don't. As much as I'd personally agree that upping potencies doesn't make things better, you'd be shocked at the huge percentage of players would state otherwise. All they care about is seeing huge numbers appear in the flying text on their screens. Those huge numbers whirling around sell games just like the sexual objectification of women unfortunately still does.

Things change over time. You can't stop it.

What you have is the ability to do is say "this is no longer the right game for me" and leave. Exercise your power as a consumer. If enough people take their money elsewhere, they'll notice. Maybe they make changes to bring back what you loved. Maybe they don't.

You're certainly not going to get it if you and everyone else who feels the same way you do continuing to hang around handing SE their money. After all, they're still getting it from you and there are too many people in the world who complain just for the sake of complaining. As a business, they don't mind indulging those who do if those people are willing to pay them money for the privilege. They have no way of knowing who was serious about their complaints unless they disappear.