What would it take to make you unsub from xiv

[Merrigan]

Oh no you have to learn the game and how to play your job and not be lazy in high end duties. Savage raiding and ultimate's aren't content where you can netflix and chill in and requires precision and attention and communication if you could care less about performing at your jobs max potential and prefer to play lazily and not learn then you don't belong in raids. If people can't bother to do teamwork and communicate and expect to be carried they have no business in that content.

I don't think you're really responding to what he was saying.

It's possible to find groups on FF who are willing to help you learn. It's not a question of being lazy or anything, just of having the opportunity to learn - by putting in the effort, of course. Just so you don't see the classic "FF fanboy" response: I know there's toxicity on FF, etlitism and the like. But on the whole, you can still find healthy groups and guilds for newcomers.

On WOW, it's more complicated. Hence "Just be good": you're expected to be good, even if it's your first raid, when you've just arrived and aren't yet very familiar with the game's mechanics. In a situation where you'll be less effective than the player who's been around for several expansions, not because you're a bad player per se, but because all MMOs require a period of acclimatization in terms of rhythm, recurring mechanics, combat design, etc. etc. By the way, you don't need to go into HL content to find this mentality: I've seen people kicked out of levelling dungeons many, many times... Because they said they were new.

It's pretty hard to blame WOW players for this mentality: the whole game is calibrated to favor the competitive over the top, even in levels where it shouldn't be. The ultra-focus on esport, the non-moderation of sites like r.io, or even mechanics like the timer in MM+ (content I love... But which doesn't lend itself at all to calm exchanges between players, because nobody is patient with a timer on their butt). All this creates an atmosphere that makes the average player extremely nervous.

That's what a lot of people complain about on wow. It has nothing to do with being PL'd by people who will do everything for you.

[Nebelheim]

I don't think you're really responding to what he was saying.

It's possible to find groups on FF who are willing to help you learn. It's not a question of being lazy or anything, just of having the opportunity to learn - by putting in the effort, of course. Just so you don't see the classic "FF fanboy" response: I know there's toxicity on FF, etlitism and the like. But on the whole, you can still find healthy groups and guilds for newcomers.

On WOW, it's more complicated. Hence "Just be good": you're expected to be good, even if it's your first raid, when you've just arrived and aren't yet very familiar with the game's mechanics. In a situation where you'll be less effective than the player who's been around for several expansions, not because you're a bad player per se, but because all MMOs require a period of acclimatization in terms of rhythm, recurring mechanics, combat design, etc. etc. By the way, you don't need to go into HL content to find this mentality: I've seen people kicked out of levelling dungeons many, many times... Because they said they were new.

From how they worded it it seems they expected to be carried or have a group to work around 1 persons suboptimal performance. It's one thing to be in a static starting out and the whole group learns together or a experienced group looking for a filler spot and willing to teach its just how they worded there post is why I made the post I did because they worded it like they didn't care if they or anyone else performs suboptimal and drag a group down or not learn a fight. But ff14 is a mixed bag of raid groups just like wow where you can find really nice helpful groups or extremely toxic groups it depends on how lucky you are with the group you find.

[Sebazy]

It's pretty hard to blame WOW players for this mentality: the whole game is calibrated to favor the competitive over the top, even in levels where it shouldn't be. The ultra-focus on esport, the non-moderation of sites like r.io, or even mechanics like the timer in MM+ (content I love... But which doesn't lend itself at all to calm exchanges between players, because nobody is patient with a timer on their butt). All this creates an atmosphere that makes the average player extremely nervous.

To chime in, even as an Entropy member and someone who whilst not right on the cutting edge, has at least participated in world prog in the past... It really does boggle my mind that SE seem to try to cater to the whole esports competitive angle of raiding.

At least from my perspective, it sucks the fun out of it all. Things get too serious and it just pushes people ever more down the path of the meta to keep up. Making things log friendly and consistent, making melee uptime braindead, tightly scripting everything around neatly aligned burst phases.

F that, give me RNG, make me work, make me move, make me drop my GCD, stop me healing via a spreadsheet.

I had more fun farming Lamebrix Strikebrix with the group all trying to MPK each other than I'll ever have in a modern Savage fight.