Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

[GoatOfWar]

What's there even left to trim?..

[SweetPete]

Make dots on bard relevant again or just get rid of them. They have no synergy with the job anymore. They are just there now to keep the job busy. They are absolutely useless now.

[TBerry]

Make dots on bard relevant again or just get rid of them. They have no synergy with the job anymore. They are just there now to keep the job busy. They are absolutely useless now.

Removing the DoTs would require a massive rework, as they do help fill the gauge and trigger procs.

[Hyperia]

Job balance, that needs to go. Making sure that every job can do every task has watered things down to near mediocrity. Each job should have a niche, synergies that work better with others. It should be setup that a task may be doable with enough effort, planning and creativity.

Also, the 2 minute meta, that should disappear. It takes away all creativity and leaves no optimization for specific events. It’s been 2 minutes, push the button, do the thing then wait.

[Mikey_R]

Removing the DoTs would require a massive rework, as they do help fill the gauge and trigger procs.

Not as of EW. It was changed so that, every 3 seconds, the song has a chance to proc it's repertoire effect regardless of whether you have a DoT up or not.

[ForteNightshade]

Shake is certainly more of a Issue here, the fact it heals, regen and shields is really odd, I think honestly I like the AOE healing aspect of these abilities it's very limited and the barrier aspect is good, I'd certainly nerf Shake's healing, I'd even be fine with DV being nerfed somehow, but I like that PLD's can actually provide aoe support to allies, It fits the job. If we wanted to remove aoe healing then the arguement shouldn't just be about tanks as a lot of DPS also provide AOE healing.

The reason they added a heal/regen is purely for Savage and Ultimate. Much like Bloodwhetting, it's not nearly as powerful there as people think. For any multi hitting attack like Hallowing Hell, Styx or just close together raid wides, old Shake was simply worse than Dark Missionary and Heart of Light. Now they may have gotten a little too heavy-handed with how much it heals but I suspect that was due to them being terrified of buffing Warrior's damage despite it actually needing it throughout most of the expansion. I think a decent enough change would be removing the heal but leaving the regen.

Otherwise, I tend to agree with your overall sentiment. Tank sustain is a little too high but that's a combination of them having far too much mitigation and stuff barely tickling nowadays. Much like the healers having far too many oGCD that essentially trivialize any decision making.

Why?
Is it really that hard for DPS to press the faint/addle button to help the group? I don't know what's the Issue with DPS being able to contribute a small amount of mitigation (in a non DPS way) in a team based game.

Unfortunately, yes. As someone who has healed in PF, it's more than a little frustrating how infrequently Feint, Addle and even Samba/Tactician/Troub are pressed. Granted, I don't want them removed but it's still annoying. I've even be yelled at to "just shield!!!" because, of course, it's the healer's fault.

I don't know how positional are tedious to use, they're a way of optimising damage output, skill expression in fights that are varied, I think the issue is more that True North is so frequent and that hitboxes are pretty massive, I think having them behind large cooldowns kind of defeats the purpose of having them.

I think positional add a lot to the melee gameplay when done right, I don't think I'd enjoy melee without consistent positional, I'd prefer if they actually became more meaningful if anything.

My issue with positionals is bosses lately turn far too irregularly, and I'm at the mercy of tanks positioning properly. Add to the fact we've been getting fights like P11S where it's downright impossible to get all your positionals even with True North stacks unless you do a strat specifically tailored to them, which PF does, and it just becomes more of a chore than anything engaging.

[Limecat]

My issue with positionals is bosses lately turn far too irregularly, and I'm at the mercy of tanks positioning properly. Add to the fact we've been getting fights like P11S where it's downright impossible to get all your positionals even with True North stacks unless you do a strat specifically tailored to them, which PF does, and it just becomes more of a chore than anything engaging.

I think the biggest problem with positionals is that they aren't a reward. You hit them to do the expected, homogenized par damage. Change them to something like double the potency of the normal hit, true extra damage beyond what's intended for the fight, and you'll quickly find people everywhere magically learning how to be combat ballerinas within the hour.

[Absurdity]

My issue with positionals is bosses lately turn far too irregularly, and I'm at the mercy of tanks positioning properly. Add to the fact we've been getting fights like P11S where it's downright impossible to get all your positionals even with True North stacks unless you do a strat specifically tailored to them, which PF does, and it just becomes more of a chore than anything engaging.

Which is really just down to the dev's design decisions again. Since 90% of the difficulty comes from boss mechanics nowadays every harder fight has turned into a spam fest that constantly forces you across the map, the movement is down to all newer bosses auto positioning after everything they do (often in nonsensical ways as well, why does Nald'thal turn south with every mechanic when the general consensus is to tank the boss facing north and has been for years? Who on the dev team looked at that and thought "Looks good, ship it!"?).

Would the removal of those put even more emphasis on tank positioning? Yeah, and it's honestly how it should be. It might be occasionally really annoying when you get a tank that just spins the boss constantly, but it should also remove jerky boss movement when you actually have a good tank...and the beyblade tank will simply have to learn that their terrible movement makes it harder for everyone else.

[Rithy255]

Snip.

Thanks for the reply I can certainly see your perspective I agree with a lot on what you said, I'll just go in order from what you replied.

Tank sustain/Mitigations, I think tank mitigations being strong would at least be balanced If tanks weren't already outright super powerful defensively, I think tuning down on mitigation is fine in general, but I think the most important part about making tanks/healers more fun would be a general rework in both to feel more active then the current design imo, which leans into both tanks and healers just having way too much for the actual mitigation, healing ect. that goes onto the tank and party. If shake was changed to just regen/barrier instead I'd also like that regen aspect for Paladin, if we removed the heal as in general the Regen I feel works better, I think tank sustain warrior wise that's kind of what makes warrior, well warrior I like the big self sustain I'm just not a fan of the team/group sustain on it design wise that being said stuff like shake healing and regen and the AOE sustain on BW (yeah i get this doesn't come up in raiding) can be a bit... too much?, while with PLD its biggest sustain is selfish through Magic attacks, and I'm not really a fan of burst sustain being tied to your DPS burst, as it feels like when you're not holding aggro it goes to waste a lot.

For faint, addle & ranged mitigation, I think they add a bit of depth to melee/magic, I realise some people really don't use it but its one small thing that can be seen as what makes a decent DPS to what makes a good Dps, Ranged in particular should keep mitigations, Job guide lists them as providing support and if they're always going to be the lowest damage dps group I think they should actually provide strong utility. (This sort of relates to why I like tanks having strong team mits/shields, It just adds more depth and ways to help healers which I find fun)

For positionals, I get that I see them more of a reward for hitting them, rather then if I don't always hit it I'm getting punished but I can get why that would be annoying if you had a tight DPS check, I think for certain fights they can just make positional not matter if it's really hard to design that particular fight around them, I know some fights would just be better made without them (I'm not a fan of massive hitboxes nor bosses auto moving), but I really enjoy how positional feel personally, I wouldn't want them just to "remove it" because that seems like how ff14 is balancing everything lately, remove it or make it not important, rather then looking at the key issues and trying to fix that.

[Chasingstars]

I doubt they will, and I make this in jest, but:

Peloton
Foot Graze
Leg Graze
Sleep
Repose
Leg Sweep
True North (and by extension positionals)