Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

[Rithy255]

Selfish tank healing is fine imo, the issue comes from abilities that allow tanks to heal other players. Especially with no conditions attached.
I think the problem abilities right now are Nascent,Shake,Intervention and Veil.

Clemency is probably fine.

I'd Argue Intervention is fine If Aurora and Hoc are fine, I don't see a issue in single target healing abilities here. I'd argue I much rather not want magic attack healing, it doesn't really feel like you can control it and it's not as fun as giving a regen/mit to a party member.

DV/Shake? Shake is certainly more of a Issue here, the fact it heals, regen and shields is really odd, I think honestly I like the AOE healing aspect of these abilities it's very limited and the barrier aspect is good, I'd certainly nerf Shake's healing, I'd even be fine with DV being nerfed somehow, but I like that PLD's can actually provide aoe support to allies, It fits the job. If we wanted to remove aoe healing then the arguement shouldn't just be about tanks as a lot of DPS also provide AOE healing.

I think tank healing isn't actually the issue, Sure warrior/pld can have some reductions in healing, but even if you have a DRK you're still barely required to even heal, The healing issue isn't just because some times have tanks provide limited group/target healing it's because healer design just doesn't outright work currently.

It feels like people are just pointing at Tanks being the issue on why healer is boring, I mean theirs a certain degree to it like Warriors BW/Flash being super boring in AOE, But I think the actual issue doesn't stem from tank problems it's actually just because healer design isn't really great.

[Shougun]

• Rampart (replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Arm's Length and Surecast (use your actual movement tools, instead of just hitting a "Pass on doing mechanics" button)
• True North (replace with F&C/WT being usable in either order, a passive with charges spent to guarantee positionals infrequently on Monk, etc.)
• Lucid Dreaming (replace the consequent 38ish% of MP per minute with just additional passive tick amounts)
• Tank Stances (replace with default increased tank Enmity, with further positional control and bonuses via who Provoked most recently)
• Shirk (it's almost purely bloat even now)
• Interject and Low Blow being separate keys. Consolidate into one skill that does both functions, and give it 2 charges, ~20s recast. And give us more to interrupt or stun on bosses.
• and maybe Reprisal (likewise replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Undraw (who even has it bound as is?)

More importantly, though, just let us actually macro things properly and without losing the ability to queue actions.

If we're not going to make competitive uses for combo keys out of order, give an option to make using a combo's keys out of order impossible (can set to only allow you to continue, only swap combos or continue the one you're already on, or can only reset, swap, or continue) so that those who enjoy their extra finger-dancing aren't at a disadvantage vs. those who'd rather spend just 1 button per decision ("do single-target combo"), instead of up to 7 buttons on that single decision.

Such would allow for pretty huge savings, and in a fully customizable way.

I think Physick on SMN should be added to the list of useless skills :3

I feel cool hitting "pass" on movement skills, since you see most people just go flying and you're like 'nah man, I'm good thanks for the suggestion though'. Yet... I have seen a few mechanics where pressing 'pass' actually causes you more problems because you are supposed to be moved lol. I can see that being quite problematic for both the player and the designer of content.

Not quite the topic of the thread, but strongly imo, I would like to see all role skills become personalized to the job that is using them. Dark Knight losing Shadowskin for Rampart, Reprisal, Low Blow, Paladin having both Shield Bash and Low Blow? Etc.. Return Leeches to SCH, leave Esuna to White Mage, etc. Adding variation (even if minor) where possible. Maybe Leeches for example has a short Warden Paeon effect (where if it doesn't remove something it'll wait a few seconds before officially saying it did nothing), or heals a bit if it removes a debuff.

Back when we had 'options' and it was still a bit of an obvious vestige of the FF tactics / FFXI space we came from, it was fine, but at this point I feel that role skills are there just to damage the individuality and theme of each job. Yes all healers will need a debuff removing skill, but it does't need to have the same name or do EXACTLY the same thing (even if some skills, like esuna, will need a stronger similarity than others- like sleep on the magic jobs could have much better variation). At this point it just seems like a way for them to cut costs, and 'feels' like it too- dollar saver skills, get em while they're cheap (sort of vibe). So I would like to see role actions just go entirely, and the jobs unlock those skills with unique characteristics to themselves (even if some skills are going to be more obvious like an Esuna).

[AnnRam]

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Nuclear take remove positionals. I have never liked them. I thought they were stupid in 2.0, and they have been slowly removing them for years. Just rip the bandaid off. Casual players don't even do them anymore. I'm like the one moron in the roulette doing them.

Positionals as an idea are decent, but in practice they mostly just end up punishing you when you can't freely get behind or on the side of a boss due to mechanics and/or aoes.

[StarRosie]

As a BLM, I ask that we throw Scathe where it belongs, in the trash. I have NEVER had this on my hotbar and I know several other BLM mains who also never use this. As an AST? Undraw. Just, seriously, throw Undraw away.

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

Yeeeeaaaaaaah...I remember going through an era where healers had a lot of whether the run goes smooth or not put on them. Both as a healer and a tank. Which created a ton of pressure for healers. This era also gave some of them massive egos and made them unironically say things like "The tank has no say in what their comfort levels are. That's for me to decide." This is an era, I would rather not return to. At least with current design, if I'm playing WAR or PLD? If I die? That's on me. And I will own that. But gutting everyone's self sustain is just going to put way too much pressure on healers and make the role more intimidating to some. Plus...what about solo duties?

[BaconBits]

Gut them.

Gut them all.

Every last one of them.

[tsuchii]

Ranged needs adjustment. They either need to buff it or nerf the goddamn bosses with giant hitboxes. I honestly prefer the latter.

[Eraden]

As a BLM, I ask that we throw Scathe where it belongs, in the trash. I have NEVER had this on my hotbar and I know several other BLM mains who also never use this. As an AST? Undraw. Just, seriously, throw Undraw away.



Yeeeeaaaaaaah...I remember going through an era where healers had a lot of whether the run goes smooth or not put on them. Both as a healer and a tank. Which created a ton of pressure for healers. This era also gave some of them massive egos and made them unironically say things like "The tank has no say in what their comfort levels are. That's for me to decide." This is an era, I would rather not return to. At least with current design, if I'm playing WAR or PLD? If I die? That's on me. And I will own that. But gutting everyone's self sustain is just going to put way too much pressure on healers and make the role more intimidating to some. Plus...what about solo duties?

NOPES! No throw away Scathe! Is very much needed spell of last resort when in huge hunts trains and has mere second or two to tag critter.

[Rithy255]

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

You can have tank healing and healer healing work in synergy, If the Healing requirements demanded more healing and ogcd heals were trimmed in a world where healers had to actively GCD heal, Tanks using defensives/small healing abilities would actually be more useful instead of just replacing the healer role. Personally I like how tanks can contribute team healing, I don't think healers or tanks should be fully independent from one another but at the same time I'm fine with a tank carrying a healer or a healer carrying a tank ect. (In normal content)

I don't get why people want to take healing from tanks, it's really not going to fix the healer role, It feels like healers and tanks are just fighting at what little they have, I honestly just see removing utility from tanks as a lose/lose because its not going to make healer more fun, Instead of considering if the issue isn't actually tanks, but it's how healing works in the game. If there was more agency in how healing felt both roles could actually benefit as "team supports".

If tanks shouldn't heal? should healers mitigate? Should tanks not have Dps rotations? Should Dps not be able to heal too? I think it's fine for certain roles to lean into another role a bit, it just shouldn't entirely replace the other role, I get that hard fights can be done without healer, but again that seems to me to be a issue with the healing requirements personally.

[Nizzi]

Should tanks not have Dps rotations?

Yeah if healers can't, tanks shouldn't either