Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

[Rolder50]

Primal Rend and abilities like it (Where Button A unlocks the use of Button B) need to be consolidated such that Button A turns into Button B when activated instead of being a different button.

[ZiraZ]

Devs need to add an unkippable tutorial that teaches people that modifiers/expanded hot crossbar exist apparently.

[Shougun]

Something being useful to press does not necessarily mean that it's useful/beneficial to the game, let alone as an additional button, though.

Do we really need a button specifically for out-of-combat permanent half-sprint?

The preamble- In line with another comment, I don't think all role actions need to be the same and especially EXACTLY the same (visuals, name, and minor details at least, but sometimes, like sleep, it could be an opportunity for more diversity).

On Peloton specifically though what if it had more interplay?

Like let's say for Bard it's called Adventurous Hum and once cast acts as a passive aura, with very seldom musical note effects as a special effect, granting an AoE minor speed boost to those around the Bard (in a fairly large radius). Players entering the radius might see a faint circle light up as they enter the bard's aura space and they gain the buff, if they leave the space their speed buff will gain a countdown of 15 seconds. While out of combat, if you activate it afterwards you gain additional movement speed bonus to the aura (energizing the hum), the bonus resetting every 30 seconds, the spell having a 15 second cooldown, but stacking up to 1 minute; however, the effect itself also stacks up to three times- essentially granting a permanent full speed sprint (130%) if you stack it over 45 seconds and maintain it there after.

The aura effect PAUSES in combat but automatically RESUMES when out of combat, if you want to fully cancel it then you specifically cancel the buff manually or change jobs (I feel adding an entire 'cancel' skill is a wasted slot when players could just manually cancel the buff if they hated running faster that much, alternatively a new right click mechanic to AURA spells which allows you to right click an aura ability and cancel it).

Now... when you enter combat it turns to Frenetic Chorus (keeping in mind the adventurous hum has paused) and it would temporarily greatly increase allies movement speed and rapidly degenerate over 5 seconds, if at the end of the duration they were not struck by a dodge-able AoE they then gain a 10% heal (worried about saying shield or offensive as it starts to demand people use it on cooldown, regardless of using it effectively to be a get out of dodge card). It doesn't have to relate to movement I suppose, or could be quirky movement, like grants a 10% speed boost to allies and damages nearby enemies 50 potency per tick UP TO X potency per enemy. (Meaning it's self balanced for 4 and 8 players).

I just think it would potentially be removing flavor if we ripped it out entirely. Now the thing is movement is a bit handy on each of those jobs so if we entirely killed it from the other two aiming jobs they might be miffed lol, iirc MCH solo DD was helped by it. So this might be one of those variant ideas where each job gets a new take on movement speed, but all generally helpful (yet thematic to them).

[GoatOfWar]

I guess any and all healing on Pld and War now that they apparently need to do higher damage than the one tank that doesn't have any.

[Rithy255]

I guess any and all healing on Pld and War now that they apparently need to do higher damage than the one tank that doesn't have any.

I want drk to do more damage as a PLD player, so i rather keep the healing (just remove holyspirit/conf combo healing), War should also do less damage.
DRK also has pretty good self mitigation compared to most tanks (inside raids anyway by the nature of Dark Mind being magic only), but I do think it should be doing more then warrior. I actually disagree with PLD's buffs in 6.5 (and warriors buffs in 6.4)

In reality gunbreakers are laughing at everyone because they got really good everything and best DPS.

[DisasterGayofCrisis]

Asking for tanks to not have healing is not something I'd support. Healing for any class can help take the ease off healers as well as offers sustainibility is the healer is down, in anything I feel we need better phoenix downs to address THAT issue so if a healer messes up a mechanic the answer to the fight is not stand still and wait for a wipe. I'm almost omni-90, I loved RDM and SMN solely because if the healer died it wasn't the end of a fight.

Let's be fair, not everyone is going to be optimal, almost every fight has a different range of unique mechanics that can be hard for some people to remember. That's why it's nice when some classes have healing or support mechanics.

[dsgawwewerfw]

It's not a popular opinion but they should really replace ley lines with something else, as there is no way of playing Black Mage in high level content without someone in your party going:"Ugh solving these mechanics would be so much easier if we didn't have to cater to our BLM...".

You can really feel people sighing just by joining a party as this job.

[Oizen]

I want drk to do more damage as a PLD player, so i rather keep the healing (just remove holyspirit/conf combo healing), War should also do less damage.
DRK also has pretty good self mitigation compared to most tanks (inside raids anyway by the nature of Dark Mind being magic only), but I do think it should be doing more then warrior. I actually disagree with PLD's buffs in 6.5 (and warriors buffs in 6.4)

In reality gunbreakers are laughing at everyone because they got really good everything and best DPS.

GNB's sustain is around the same level that Dark Knight's is, and its party utility is basically identical, being borderline nonexistant outside of DM/HoL, and their short mit on an ally.
Both fall very far behind in terms of healing and sustain, with WAR brining about 1.5x as much and PLD bringing 1.3x as much, based on statistics.

HoC is powerful but you're not going to pocket a non-tank indefinitely with it like you can Nascent or Intervention. More healing than DRK has with it, but then Living Dead is significantly better than Superbolide in my opinion, and TBN is available enough to where it basically evens out.
And content that demands more mit and sustain like Criterion Savage reflect this with DRK and GNB being played way less compared to WAR and PLD.

Tanks and healers in non standard content is probably the biggest balance disparity in the game.

[Zairava]

I don't feel like anything should be trimmed, that just sounds like it's being replaced with nothing which has been a major part of my criticism thus far. There's plenty that could be consolidated, though. Like Shoha and Shoha II as an example

[Rithy255]

Snip

Gunbreakers sustain is not the same as Dark Knight, Dark knights "sustain" that is shown on logs in a fight is because TBN counts as healing, The only sustain Dark Has is their Invul (and third combo which gunbreaker has but better and on their 2nd combo). You cannot count TBN has healing sustain, it's shielding, two separate things. those numbers aren't very accurate to Dark Knights actual healing sustain.

Gunbreakers healing on HOC and aurora, are very comparable to what PLD/WAR has, War obviously beating both PLD/GNB out, PLD generally only heals more then GNB because of Divine Veil and magic attacks burst healing, Which is why I think out of the two I'd like to see PLD's magic burst healing removed if we were to dial down on PLD's self sustain abilities. If anything without that healing on req (which mind you isn't really fun because PLD can't even control that healing), PLD would have less sustain then GNB.

Why wouldn't you Use HOC in the same cases you use intervention/BW, Are we also forgetting GNB gets aurora to help out, I'm pretty sure I've easily sustained two DPS before as Gunbreaker, so it even has enough targetable sustain to keep others alive just like WAR/PLD, I'm In favour of buffing raid wides for GNB/DRK mind you, a 10% magic mit feels very underwhelming, Other then that It's hard to believe that Gunbreaker isn't still the more versatile and best tank, Pld can do with some small self sustain nerfs and I'm fine, Warrior can also do with the same especially it's AOE healing.

Criterion savage has balance Issues, if You look at Healers and DPS they're also suffering from major imbalances, if tanks like war/pld were so broken that they can replace healers then why would Whm/Ast play rates be so low compared to Sage?

what I disagree with is "No healing tools" I think PLD's healing/utility should be slightly better then your average tank in exchange for like marginally lower damage, Gunbreaker should remain the jack of all trades, Warrior should lean into being about big HP and Self healing but maybe lacking as much team abilities, Dark Knight should be reworked into something worthy of the "Dark Knight". The Point is why would the first answer be to remove everything like Sustain from tanks, It just makes every tank feel the same and we all know that's already a major issue with tank design as of current, I'm not saying we shouldn't have trade offs for higher sustain/mitigation ect. But this Idea of just removing everything about a tank and giving them nothing in place feels like we're just going to go over the same issues again and again.

I'm all for healers actually healing Fyi, hence why I'm against the hyper sustain of warrior or PLD's magic attack healing, I just don't think this "remove of sustain" solution is actually a solution that will fix healers, it will just make ruin more uniqueness about tanks.