People that say dungeons are too easy...

[DPZ2]

I think for one damage spikes in wall to wall pulls should come back, and or even stopping tanks from being walled off (until boss) so more experienced tanks can large pull again

Because nothing said "difficulty" like a melee job attempting to attack mobs with overlapping AoEs that are surrounding the tank.

[Gullis]

I'm not really looking for hard challenges from dungeons, but as a DPS player I do wanna have to use my brain a bit. It seems like for the most part, doing wall-to-wall depends on the tank+healer, and not so much the dps. The dps has to kill the stuff quick enough, but unless it's super egregiously bad dps, if the party wipes because the tank ran out of CDs when the fight dragged too long.

I see this happening suprisingly often, that the tank and healer will run out of mits because of bad DPS during w2w pulls.
DPS might not feel rewarding to play, But when I play healer or tank, its extremly easy to notice dps performance being good or bad.

[ReynTime]

"You think dungeons are too easy? What, you wanted to be criterion hard????"

You seem to think, like the developers, that there is no in-between.

[KenZentra]

I think another thing to keep in mind, at least when it comes to the trash pulls, is that the trash in the dungeon just auto-attacks and uses a telegraphed cleave, line, or circle AoE with a cast bar. If they had little mechanics with them without changing how long they take to kill could make them much more enjoyable, and the mechanics dont have to be something difficult or complex.

Could be like 1 mob applies a "Healing Received Down" debuff, making the tank take way less healing, so you'd target it down first and then go back to AoEing, or another idea could be that the mobs explode at half hp and 0 hp, so you'd either want heavy mit on everyone, keep everyone topped off with healing or kill them one at a time... or just blowing everyone up anyways.

[Rithy255]

"You think dungeons are too easy? What, you wanted to be criterion hard????"

You seem to think, like the developers, that there is no in-between.

I think the issue is more can they actually balance or make midcore content work in the first place, The game is designed in a way that it's either really easy even if you fail the dance fight mechs you get a vun stack and carry on, or one mistake leads to a party wipe.

This is pretty much the Issue with difficulty in the game, theirs just nothing in-between Easy or super difficult hard mode, so theirs no real way of players jumping into hard content without just diving into it failing over and over or looking at a guide and that's even if people want to do that content in the first place, not everyone wants to do either super easy or super difficult content. And it's not like the Jobs really have much to master anymore anyway.

[Xirean]

I think another thing to keep in mind, at least when it comes to the trash pulls, is that the trash in the dungeon just auto-attacks and uses a telegraphed cleave, line, or circle AoE with a cast bar. If they had little mechanics with them without changing how long they take to kill could make them much more enjoyable, and the mechanics dont have to be something difficult or complex.

Could be like 1 mob applies a "Healing Received Down" debuff, making the tank take way less healing, so you'd target it down first and then go back to AoEing, or another idea could be that the mobs explode at half hp and 0 hp, so you'd either want heavy mit on everyone, keep everyone topped off with healing or kill them one at a time... or just blowing everyone up anyways.

Sohm Al Hard is a good example of stuff like that. The slimes will self destruct if they don't die fast enough. People just stun them and continue aoeing. Any mechanic remotely interesting from dungeons packs will be optimized out of existence by the community almost as a reflex. In my opinion this is part of the reason mobs do more damage with autos then anything else.

[Syln]

I would say that more than the absence of difficulty when it come to dungeon, the main issues are gameplay and dungeon design which are both shallow and streamlined.

It remind me more and more of what you can find in a mobile game : No thinking, bare bone gameplay, flashy thing on the screen and boring reward.

I don't want complex hard fight that ask you to watch a 10 min guide because the mechanics are far to cryptic to be understand quickly. I want to be asked to kick/stun/prioritize target, i want more tool and situations to use them instead of just optimizing my damage output, i want to be stimulated instead of having my brain slowly shutting down as the dungeon goes on.

And while we're at it, if they could make easy to avoid telegraphed attack deal far more damage that would be nice, the easier attacks are to avoid the more damage they should deal.

[Neoyoshi]

Warcraft kind of lives in this alternate reality in terms of Dungeon difficulty; over there it's about overgearing the content as they have no type of syncing system and only when undergeared; is when mechanics tend to be somewhat challenging; although the gearing process used to be the carrot for WoW, gear was always drip-fed back in the day so it kept the gap of difficulty curves a bit wider than it is today in current retail.

That's not a issue FFXIV suffers from, the sync system always keeps content in pace with it's ilvl; with a bit of wiggle room here and there; there is no real overgearing unless you deliberately unsync; at which point rewards are moot unless it's mount/minion/glam/seal farming.

[Kennar]

I remember my first time through Stone Vigil as a fledgling paladin way back in the 2.0 days. Our healer was a vet, but the rest of us were new. We had to work to get through it, largely due to a lack of kit, and stat bloat was not yet an issue. As a tank, I had to know what to pull and when (e.g. didn't want a patrolling dragon aevis to join the party unannounced), and enmity management was still a major thing. It wasn't a clean or particularly fast run, but I had a good time and I think the rest of the party did, too. We felt like we really accomplished something when we finished.

Criterion is a neat concept, but there are only three Criterion dungeons and the rewards suck. Meanwhile, there are 89 regular dungeons that are just facerolls at this point. Let's reuse current dungeons, but tune enemies and bosses for higher ilvls and add additional objectives (i.e. rescuing hostages or time challenges). I've had the idea of bringing back levequests, but using them to spice up dungeons by way of the aforementioned means. Leves can add another path for gear progression, while making older content more relevant, more challenging and, perhaps, more fun.

Unfortunately, as long as item levels continue to grow at an almost unchecked pace, normal content is tuned for solo players using Trusts, and optional content (deep dungeons, exploratory zones, V&C dungeons, etc.) is just abandoned by the devs when the next expansion rolls out, those of us looking for a little more challenge will still be left out in the cold.

[KenZentra]

That's not a issue FFXIV suffers from, the sync system always keeps content in pace with it's ilvl; with a bit of wiggle room here and there; there is no real overgearing unless you deliberately unsync...

This isnt really true, aside from dungeons that have specific iLvl syncs on them, which is typically the last dungeon of the expansion's story. Most dungeons do not have a tight iLvl Sync, for example The Dead Ends requires 540 iLvl but syncs down to iLvl 570, a 30 iLvl difference while Smileton requires 540 iLvl, but syncs down to 600. Doing Smileton at 540 and at 600 iLvl are going to be very different in terms of difficulty.