They don't make changes unless they have to

[yaba_gabagool]

So I had a discussion with a friend, and what interestingly came up about the way Square appears to do things is that they don't make changes very often once they've made up their minds -- unless they have to.

Until a critical point comes to where they absolutely need to adapt, they'll drag their feet on making iterative changes or deviations in their original plan.

The theme is pretty consistent throughout the years in Square development from 1.0, through dark knight changes, through pvp changes, etc.

Once the plan is set, that's it -- unless they're forced to change.


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Now that brings us to today, with the current pvp state of the game. Honestly, they've done a decent job with certain things - the new rework, at least I feel is superior to previous implementations of pvp in the game. They continue to include new content, though despite being hit or miss on their design, still shows them trying.

What they don't do very well, and by don't do very well I mean are woefully inadequate at, are balance passes and reworking aspects of PvP that are constant sources of immense frustration for the community.


- CC/Stuns having no Diminishing Returns during a timeframe, and forcing you to use stun breaks for a limited time is poor balancing.

- Classes having mechanics or lbs that are clearly overpowered in a semi-skilled player's hands that give too much return for little to no risk continue to be an issue.

- Certain balancing among classes such as PLD (Underpowered) & DRK (Grossly Overpowered), some healers, some dps, continue to be unaddressed. (Still think Warrior is the best balanced tank in PvP currently).

- Miracle of Nature still having no counter play and being on such a low cool down.

- Sprint being togglable and used in combat to allow people to just run away from any class that doesn't have abusable stuns/burst/or a series of low cool down charges. (Hint - no mobility and CC creep would be a poor "solution". Reworking sprint in combat is the correct solution)


I'm sure the community can continue to list long standing issues that need to be addressed, but you get the point.

Feedback seems to go largely ignored considering the length of time that surpasses without issues being addressed (lol, "we don't read the forums" -- sure you don't guy.)

[Eastwall]

If They ever cap aoe skill to 5 target, l want to see how long I'll it take for them to do it

[Mistress_Irika]

If They ever cap aoe skill to 5 target, l want to see how long I'll it take for them to do it

I can only imagine the outcome with that sort of change in a frontline game.

Dancer sees a ton of players and limit breaks during a skirmish to save a soul. Everyone sees this and is enticed. Dancer successfully charms 5 people. Dancer gets nuked due to the LB not affecting the rest of the opponents that was around.

It may help with preventing alliances from being wiped in one go, but it does make certain classes less effective in these big skirmishes. Now you have another problem on your hands in terms of being useful on the field due to a damage/cc cap whether it be dealing damage in general or trying to save someone with a clutch stun.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I can only imagine the outcome with that sort of change in a frontline game.

Dancer sees a ton of players and limit breaks during a skirmish to save a soul. Everyone sees this and is enticed. Dancer successfully charms 5 people. Dancer gets nuked due to the LB not affecting the rest of the opponents that was around.

It may help with preventing alliances from being wiped in one go, but it does make certain classes less effective in these big skirmishes. Now you have another problem on your hands in terms of being useful on the field due to a damage/cc cap whether it be dealing damage in general or trying to save someone with a clutch stun.

Honestly this is why it is better to go with harsh scaling past 5 targets rather than limiting to 5 targets.

If it can be quantified like damage or knockback distance, make it -80/-90% of the value after the 5th target. If it is a crowd control other than knockback, dunno this can stay at full duration.

[Commander_Justitia]

I can tell from your/OP comments you play a lot of frontline, in crystalconflict some of the issues you mentioned would be less severe. And that is what they try to balance for, for arena mode, not for frontline. And there is the source of the problem. You can't make super interesting cc arena gameplay, while leaving it the same in frontline, it will be a mess. Nerfing skills based on frontline experience, will make arena CC mode more boring too.

Ideally they give players different skillsets and rules for smallscale and largescale PvP. But it is doubtful they are willing to do that. Each addon they basically seem to redo the skills based on new e.g. lvl100 skills, they rarely do those big changes within an addon. And I guess that is the issue, if the system could use some better balancing, they don't polish it up, they rather throw it away and redo it way later. Like all we get is usually potency changes, or duration changes, rarely skill changes. While skill changes are the most impactful. (And they dont make those because of official tournaments)

I don't think I liked how all jobs in PvP are now dps/healer/support at the same time more or less. I know the issue was queue time, as some jobs wouldn't be played much like healer/melee. I rather would have seen top100 leaderboards based on role(tank/healer/melee/range), than taken their identity away.

[yaba_gabagool]

I can tell from your/OP comments you play a lot of frontline, in crystalconflict some of the issues you mentioned would be less severe. And that is what they try to balance for, for arena mode, not for frontline. And there is the source of the problem. You can't make super interesting cc arena gameplay, while leaving it the same in frontline, it will be a mess. Nerfing skills based on frontline experience, will make arena CC mode more boring too.

Ya got me. I'm a huge frontline player. Wouldn't know a thing about CC balance.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Ya got me. I'm a huge frontline player. Wouldn't know a thing about CC balance.

I'm sorry but the way you portrayed your post by labeling PLD as underpowered and DRK as grossly overpowered as well as complaining about a lack of diminishing returns on CC (which if reimplemented would work per CC type, which is mainly relevant to Frontlines and Rivalwings) - it would definitely give not few people the impression that this post was made with largescale PvP in mind.

Frankly, PLD is in a healthy if not binary spot in CC (since so much of their value is in Cover), DRK has plenty of counterplay in CC and excessive 1-type CC is rare and takes 3+ jobs with that to be noticable.

The fact you reached at least Diamond is definitely commendable, but it does not help that your original post invoked Frontline bias, even if unintentional.

[Commander_Justitia]

Ya got me. I'm a huge frontline player. Wouldn't know a thing about CC balance.

- CC/Stuns having no Diminishing Returns during a timeframe, and forcing you to use stun breaks for a limited time is poor balancing.

- Classes having mechanics or lbs that are clearly overpowered in a semi-skilled player's hands that give too much return for little to no risk continue to be an issue.

- Certain balancing among classes such as PLD (Underpowered) & DRK (Grossly Overpowered), some healers, some dps, continue to be unaddressed. (Still think Warrior is the best balanced tank in PvP currently).

- Sprint being togglable and used in combat to allow people to just run away from any class that doesn't have abusable stuns/burst/or a series of low cool down charges. (Hint - no mobility and CC creep would be a poor "solution". Reworking sprint in combat is the correct solution)

I read those things way more from frontline players tbh. I think in Crystalconflict CC effects aren't that bad. I would like if purify would be an action you can also use on teammates to clear their cc and debuff and dots, like it was previously.

2nd point also sounded like it, as a samurai or dragoon lb can kill many instantly in frontline.

PLD is boring but not too weak I guess in 5vs5, while DRK pull in effect and aoe spam make it excellent for aoe situation in frontline.

Only in frontline you can effectively kite away, while in Crystalconflict you are kinda trapped at some point. I don't think it is fun having to press sprint every 2nd second because you need to kite though, maybe sprint should cost a fraction of MP if activated to offset its spam-use.

[Llynethil]

Ya got me. I'm a huge frontline player. Wouldn't know a thing about CC balance.

Seeing how you think drk is op and pld is up and how op sam/nin are from the other thread, yeah you actually don't know a thing about cc balance, those are 100% FL player whinging topics.

[yaba_gabagool]

Seeing how you think drk is op and pld is up and how op sam/nin are from the other thread, yeah you actually don't know a thing about cc balance, those are 100% FL player whinging topics.

So I'll tell you how this is going to go, just so you (and the rest of these delusional pseude "elitists") have a heads up and I get to tell you "I told you so".

- I'm right, and you're not.

- DRK, Sam, and Nin are disgustingly OP. Reaper is sleeper. Refer to point one I made.

- The reason you say these things is likely because you abuse these mechanics to reach higher tiers, and these mechanics also happen to be extra exploitable with a bunch of cheating software currently available to players in CC.

- You and I are probably going to be worst enemies.

- You're going to get progressively angrier/slanderous the more I post proof and rub your face in just how wrong you are.

Please look forward to it.