7.0 Healer Wishlist

[Supersnow845]

lots of points to cover

1st it would be both or depending on the situation would change its primary function, but also gap closers are decent dps ogcd, but the scale of the hitbox i dont think is contributory to gap closers at least i havent seen any evidence that would prove otherwise, furthermore why should someone be forced to play a class they may not like? having everyone play SGE would be just a conforming to uniformity as homogenizing classes, what does the armory system have to do with anything, like do you mean gear ilvl, please tell me your not arguing from a glamour POV,.....seriously? and lastly i think some people are being a bit reductionist or are hyperbolic when it comes to the usage of the term homogeneous, sure the classes have similarities (which isnt the fault of SOME similar skills or the request thereof but is actually the fault of players wanting everything to be easy boss mechs, buff/debuff management, role responsibility ect )

If it has damage it gets spammed for damage, there is no ifs what’s or buts about it that’s just how 14 works

And I’m saying the armoury system is there to facilitate class difference, if you are so desperate to play a healer with a gap closer then play SGE, don’t ask for gap closers to be given to SCH and WHM……..because, class homogenisation is borne from this type of request, think WAR damage despite its self healing, think how many people still ask for Zoe to force e diagnosis to crit so Pepsis can spread it (you know SCH’s iconic niche to a literal T), how many people want expedient copied to the other healers, how WAR basically took DRK’s gap closers because DRK was the gap closer tank, how the other tanks took the “short powerful CD” niche from TBN

The list goes on and on, if you want a skill that’s a particular niche of a class then play that class or go without the niche, at this point we could basically add expedient and critlo to SGE and just delete SCH they are so damn similar and people still want them to share more skills

[Nizzi]

furthermore why should someone be forced to play a class they may not like? having everyone play SGE would be just a conforming to uniformity as homogenizing classes

This right here is exactly why the jobs will continue to be further homogenized and made into the same thing. "But I like that thing this other job has, but I don't want to play that! So give it to the job I do like instead of letting that job play differently!" The hilarious part is that this type of exact thing happened with the tanks too, can't let DRK have Plunge; PLD and WAR need gapclosers too!

You know, Yoshi-P is right, the reason job design is terrible is absolutely the community's fault and this garbage job design is what this community deserves. I'm excited for how much worse DT will make it.

The list goes on and on, if you want a skill that’s a particular niche of a class then play that class or go without the niche, at this point we could basically add expedient and critlo to SGE and just delete SCH they are so damn similar and people still want them to share more skills

After the troubles SGE was having in DSR in 6.1 vs SCH and SCH's mitigative superiority to SGE that it still has even now, I'm all but certain they are going to essentially give SGE Deployment Tactics and make Zoe a forced crit like Recitation too. In return they can give SCH a Pneuma clone and the epic gapcloser!!

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Those are probably the same mindset and reasons why SGE was born: instead of letting people play SCH while ignoring Energy Drain which would achieve what EW SGE does, they prefer to waste an entire design space to create a weaker shade of SCH and sell it as a 'new job'.

Sounds familiar.

[RyanCousland]

snipp

indeed you are correct if theres a deeps button some might be inclined to press it as simply that however to completely dismisses is usage as a movement skill as well as the opportunities where such a skill would/will be beneficial is as big of a fallacy are your generalization of "how 14 works" ,you make contradictory points if sch or whm were to be given a dps gap closer then that would not make them homogeneous to each other as whm & sch are somewhat different healers as well as separate them by a fractional difference from SGE as their gap closer would have a potential dps and icarus does not, again youre claim about homogenization being the result of some similar skills is at best anecdotal and is not based on evidence or anything from what yoshi-p and the devs have answered to in regards to this issue, as for your examples lets run down the list

War dmg are you talking about war being the 2nd or lowest dps tank? this comes from a raiding perspective where its heals arent as big of a factor when compared to dungeons hell i dont even play War & i know this, giving it a slight dps boost isnt gonna make it or anything homogeneous considering each tank still has/would have plenty of differing characteristics, following the tank topic im glad you brought DRK into this cuz it further illustrates the contrast between classes that share a similar skill but overall are different and this parallel services to the topic, also TBN isnt similar to how other tanks function in any way youre making shit up at this point

now regarding your healer theories but im sorry broad generalizations arent enough to make a convincing argument, and further illustrates the hysteria surrounding the usage of homogeneous, im sure youre smart enough to know but ill be terse in the differences between SGE & SCH

Sch: requires a fairy for almost half its toolkit, gives auto heal to any who suffer dmg, has a gauge that requires dps or a heal, has more party buffs/debuffs
Sge: gives heal based on dps, more dps buttons, gauge auto fills, gauge also requires party member to take damage,........i can go on but you know what heres a link to the guide because i think you need a refresher on how not only your main works but how the healers and other classes are quite different https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

[RyanCousland]

This right here is exactly why the jobs will continue to be further homogenized and made into the same thing. "But I like that thing this other job has, but I don't want to play that! So give it to the job I do like instead of letting that job play differently!" The hilarious part is that this type of exact thing happened with the tanks too, can't let DRK have Plunge; PLD and WAR need gapclosers too!

You know, Yoshi-P is right, the reason job design is terrible is absolutely the community's fault and this garbage job design is what this community deserves. I'm excited for how much worse DT will make it.



After the troubles SGE was having in DSR in 6.1 vs SCH and SCH's mitigative superiority to SGE that it still has even now, I'm all but certain they are going to essentially give SGE Deployment Tactics and make Zoe a forced crit like Recitation too. In return they can give SCH a Pneuma clone and the epic gapcloser!!

im inclined to think you and Super/Amdreas are the same person (maybe alts?) with these easy examples to tear apart no originality much like your claim of homogenization, PLD, WAR & DRK are still different regardless of one or some similar skills also yoshi-p is getting lazy AF

[Supersnow845]

snip

I’m actually sitting here trying to figure out if you thinking kardia and embrace constituting class difference is you arguing in bad faith or because you don’t actually know any better, the only remotely meaningful difference between SGE and SCH is different prioritisation of heals because of energy drain

Same as the tank difference, do you honestly believe that bloodwhetting/holy Shelton/heart of corrundum weren’t made overpowered precisely because TBN dominated in ShB compared to the old forms

So yes I’m actually genuinely curious if you consider flavour fluff meaningful differences or if you aren’t arguing in good faith

im inclined to think you and Super/Amdreas are the same person (maybe alts?) with these easy examples to tear apart no originality much like your claim of homogenization, PLD, WAR & DRK are still different regardless of one or some similar skills also yoshi-p is getting lazy AF

Hey nizzy apparently you are my alt buddy now, that’s cute

[RyanCousland]

I’m actually sitting here trying to figure out if you thinking kardia and embrace constituting class difference is you arguing in bad faith or because you don’t actually know any better, the only remotely meaningful difference between SGE and SCH is different prioritisation of heals because of energy drain
Same as the tank difference, do you honestly believe that bloodwhetting/holy Shelton/heart of corrundum weren’t made overpowered precisely because TBN dominated in ShB compared to the old forms
So yes I’m actually genuinely curious if you consider flavour fluff meaningful differences or if you aren’t arguing in good faith

can sch do anything without the fairy? the answer to that riddle is no, no it can not, this isnt flavor fluff its a paramount feature to its design im honestly surprised this concept as well as others is lost on you, if you want to focus all your time and argument resting on one skill then i have to say its a weak argument and is more representative of who is arguing in bad faith

now onto the tanks what in your mind makes you think any of those skills are devoid of any distinction? like seriously talk about bad faith, HC doesnt require a gauge, and neither give a Dmg skill based on dmg taken unlike TBN these alone are enough to dismiss this example of them being similar as well illustrates that you dont know what youre talking about unless youre gonna harp on the "but the CD & them being overpowered"......ok does that change their function? again no it does not

[RyanCousland]

I’m actually sitting here trying to figure out if you thinking kardia and embrace constituting class difference is you arguing in bad faith or because you don’t actually know any better, the only remotely meaningful difference between SGE and SCH is different prioritisation of heals because of energy drain

Same as the tank difference, do you honestly believe that bloodwhetting/holy Shelton/heart of corrundum weren’t made overpowered precisely because TBN dominated in ShB compared to the old forms

So yes I’m actually genuinely curious if you consider flavour fluff meaningful differences or if you aren’t arguing in good faith



Hey nizzy apparently you are my alt buddy now, that’s cute

also you might wanna look up the definition of terse as i intentionally gave a summary of these "flavor fluff" examples because thats the bare minimum i need to go, if yopu wanna go into detail by all means bring up everything you can think of between SGE & SCH and we can go tit for tat

[AmiableApkallu]

Regardless of how "homogeneous" or not you think the healers are currently, taking an ability one of them has and giving it to the others is a definite step towards making them more homogenous.

(Also, I've always figured that SGE has Icarus because it's the only healer whose AoE heals are always centered on itself [versus Cure III, Asylum, Earthly Star, Sacred Soil, fairy].)

[Supersnow845]

can sch do anything without the fairy? the answer to that riddle is no, no it can not, this isnt flavor fluff its a paramount feature to its design im honestly surprised this concept as well as others is lost on you, if you want to focus all your time and argument resting on one skill then i have to say its a weak argument and is more representative of who is arguing in bad faith

now onto the tanks what in your mind makes you think any of those skills are devoid of any distinction? like seriously talk about bad faith, HC doesnt require a gauge, and neither give a Dmg skill based on dmg taken unlike TBN these alone are enough to dismiss this example of them being similar as well illustrates that you dont know what youre talking about unless youre gonna harp on the "but the CD & them being overpowered"......ok does that change their function? again no it does not

And why does the fairy being out or not change literally anything, you are never going to not have the fairy out unless you are dissipating, you can’t even argue SCH has the niche of being a totem healer anymore since all of SGE’s heals hit the next instance over anyway, it’s almost impossible to miss anyone with physis

The skills are devoid of distinction because they do literally the same thing, mitigate a percentage amount of damage then provide a form of healing, what’s the point of flavour differences when they do the same thing in practice

I could also circle this back to healers, who cares that eos can totem heal embrace when physis does exactly the same thing with a different duration for flavour differences

If the buttons are pressed at the same time to achieve the same thing using the same method then they are functionally the same button, soil being a ground AOE vs the buff on kerechole is another example, hell besides the whole energy drain the addersgall system being “hey it’s not 60 seconds for 3 stacks it’s 1 stack every 20 seconds” is just pointless fluff

If you wanna argue these constitute meaningful class differences then go ahead, but they don’t come remotely close for me