7.0 Healer Wishlist

[IceBlueNinja]

I know you're very 'in SGE's corner' but it's shields are exactly as strong as SCH's, with only one exception: the comparison between Deploy-Adlo and Zoe-E.Prog. Eukrasian Diagnosis shield is 180% of 300p (540p). Adlo is 180% of 300p as well. They both have the same 'if you crit, you get two copies of the shield effect instead of one' with Catalyze and Differential Diagnosis. Succor is 160% of 200p (320p). Eukrasian Prognosis is 320% of 100p (also 320p). The upfront healing of E.Prog is lower (because of the existence of regular Prognosis at 300p healing), but the shielding works out to be identical. Panhaima is 200p x5, Consolation is 200p x2 (but you can spread them out a bit further by delaying the second use further I guess?). Holos has a 300p shield attached, SCH has no tool that is analogous. If anything, it's SGE that has the stronger shields, and not because they're 'stronger', but because it just has 'more' of them to choose from.

A 2.5s cast time on SGE would work fine IMO. Might even make Toxikon and it's instantcast nature have some more interesting gameplay attached

I agree with all that you say and your correct, what am getting at here is am tired of the =-sages shield is so weak and trust me I know they are not weak like people claim, I just think people overate crit alco too much =because of recitation.

I mean honestly without recitation sch shield barely does anything. On the 2.5 cast thing no I still do not want that. Sage was design to be a moving mobile version of sch as ast is a more mobile of Whm. Makes sense ast/sage gets 1.5 cast. I wont even panic because SE am sure will be smart and not change it.

[IceBlueNinja]

A deployed adlo is the strongest shield in the game (its base shield potency with no buffs is about 810 potency of shield) but it is also very resource intensive which is its tradeoff

Adlo is a GCD you have to stand still to cast, recitation is a tool with other healing potential (600 potency critdom or 1200 potency critcog while removing their ED cost) and any buffs to its potency have other uses (protraction is also a 10% mitigation and can be used to buff other heals including the tanks own heals, dissipation is risky and usually done specifically for damage and fey illumination is also a raidwide mitigation)

Zoe+e prog only costs the GCD and Zoe who’s only other real use is changing Pnuema from 600 potency to 900 potency

I find it wierd why anyone (not saying you) would even waste zoe on pneuma instead of using it for e diag/prog. 600 potency is far beyond plenty and using pnemua normally with a ixochole/kerachole instant full party heal. Once more even I have things I thing could be change on sage and pneuma am sorry its ok but too niche imo like ast synastry. Also Tarochole too becomes worthless once kera gets regen trait since they do not even stack.

[Nizzi]

I agree with all that you say and your correct, what am getting at here is am tired of the =-sages shield is so weak and trust me I know they are not weak like people claim, I just think people overate crit alco too much =because of recitation.

I mean honestly without recitation sch shield barely does anything. On the 2.5 cast thing no I still do not want that. Sage was design to be a moving mobile version of sch as ast is a more mobile of Whm. Makes sense ast/sage gets 1.5 cast. I wont even panic because SE am sure will be smart and not change it.

Why do you care so much that SGE isn't as good as SCH in high end content? Your issue is that you're seeing people talk about high end content where these differences matter and you get upset about them disagreeing with what you think is true, when as far as I can tell you don't even do the content where these differences actually matter... so why do you constantly get upset about it on these forums? No offense, but you just don't have the experience when it comes to SGE vs SCH because you aren't participating in the content where these toolkits matter to their fullest. :x I would invite you to go join the Balance discord and hop into the SCH or SGE lounges and talk with the mentors there and tell them what you think since it's very clear with your posts you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to SGE, which again is strange considering you're not doing the content where those differences matter.

When talking about things like Ultimate, we have to be objective with the differences between the jobs, especially so when SE themselves made the distinction of "Shield Healers" consisting of SGE and SCH, and in an encounter like DSR where mitigation is what matters, SCH is *objectively* stronger because of Deploy (Something that I've seen you ask for SE to take from SCH and give to SGE in your posts, along with Recitation!) As someone who has cleared DSR, if you're going for what's best in a fight you will spend hundreds of hours progging and you care about nothing else, you will just bring SCH over SGE, no ifs ands or buts. SGE's upsides don't provide nearly the same amount of benefit that SCH's do, even if we don't take into account Deploy's power. Seraph is better than Panhaima because it offers nearly a minute's worth of shielding, which can cover two mechanics, SCH has an extra mit with Fey Illum, and even Zoe isn't really able to compete with Dissipation in usage. Deploy being on a 90s CD as well just makes it have incredible incredible value and can often allow you to save other mits and is *the best* mitigation in the game. To demonstrate this, all we have to do is go back and look at how WHM+SGE comps were dying at the P7 transition in DSR and SCH was just going "lol deploy". There's a reason SCH is the only healer that was outright nerfed this expansion and why SGE has gotten multiple buffs across patches.

The big thing to note is that none of this discounts from the strengths that SGE has, and SGE isn't bad in any terms and is in a way better spot than it was at the start of the expac! SCH is just one of the best jobs in the game kitwise, and SGE happens to be slightly weaker than SCH because SGE doesn't have the drawbacks that SCH does.

SGE's healing offering no drawbacks in terms of damage is part of why SGE's kit is weaker, because you don't have to consider those tradeoffs. There's no damage loss for SGE using its mitigation or things like Holos, where SCH is always taking a damage loss when it uses something like Deployment or Sacred Soil in a non downtime situation. SCH also has to prepare for mechanics ahead in a way SGE doesn't, with how it has to chain its toolkit together across multiple GCDs where SGE just presses one button and gets what it takes SCH 3 to do (with something like Panhaima vs Seraph) or a Spreadlo being a 4 GCD commitment due to how you're having to weave things in order to prepare.

In Ultimates since there's so much downtime and required shielding, Toxicon, Swiftcast, Ikarus and Phlegma usually offers SGE completely lossless movement in phases where SCH is always losing damage whenever it can't slidecast and uses Ruin II, without exception (though this is balanced on the fact that Ruin II is always available for SCH unlike Toxicon for SGE) and SGE can even move when it's shielding, which is a huge benefit in things where you need to be shielding and moving like P7 in DSR... SGE even has an MP refund on its GCD shields that SCH does not, meaning SCH's shields are significantly more resource intensive than SGEs, because the 0 MP cost of a Toxicon effectively makes a SGE shield cost 500mp vs SCH's 1000mp that SCH gets no refund on outside of using Recitation. The two jobs are balanced around this, and these differences are why SCH is above SGE damagewise and mitigation wise, because SCH is objectively harder to play optimally and perform on optimally. And in legacy Ultimates like TEA, SGE is stronger with a better healing kit and it does more damage to boot! Even in Criterion + Savage Criterion SGE is better than SCH because it doesn't have to deal with DPS losses from its oGCDs and Chain doesn't scale as well in a light party. But I never see you complaining about anything better that SGE has than SCH, you just get mad about the fact that SCH has numeric superiority in Savage and Ultimate...?

The biggest thing to keep in mind too is that the reason people are so critical of these issues is because if you can play SGE well, you are just better off playing SCH in prog because of how similar the two are and how much more you're getting out of it relative to the gap unless you just prefer SGE. People don't do this for AST vs WHM even though AST is significantly better than WHM, AST is a *significantly harder* job to play well than WHM which makes the gap understandable as the playstyles are completely different.

[mallleable]

A SGE change I want is to either rework or replace Soteria with with something that grants you like X number of stacks of a 1.5 sec recast instant damage spell (that cleaves to save on hotbar space) so you can machinegun out damage while machingunning Kardia procs. And give it like a 40 or 60 second cooldown.

[IceBlueNinja]

Nizzi I do not need to hear your wall of useless yabbering that others already have said and I agree upon with the others. Your also very rude and stuck up, who are you to assume people play style or assume they are mad? Which part of anything I write or say sounds like I am mad. Go find someone else to bother your as worst than anyone on the forum here. At least slowly I been seeming to agree and talk calm and cool with super snow and others but you are just the bottom of the barrel thinking your a know it all.

Also since you wanna seem to watch everything I do on forum. Every reply I see you do to me or anyone is always just rude insulting things that gives apparently you are not want to have a decent conversation with. Your not a god so you cant tell a difference of someone being angry or not, at least have proper manners to ask if the person is feeling upset before jumping to conclusions. Reality Check whm/sage comp is the comp clearing the most content and my server aether and primal uses sage alot over SCH. Anyways as you yourself even say which you seem to forgot your own statement. All these 10million topics at the end of the day SE is not changing a thing or do what they want with their game.

All this wall of things you spew others have already gave very clear info with no hostility like Forsaken Roe did. Any healer can clear anything high content whether savage ultimate, but if your saying whm/sage dying or what not it sounds like a you problem or your server problem for aether and primal who I see tons of sage/whms over ast/sch clear hard content no problem. In closing all that you spew is nothing but a more hostile copy and paste of what everyone already has said to me in which I had agree with them with no hostility. Now go on my block list am so sick of you and be honored your the first and only one on it.

[mallleable]

Really whacky WHM rework idea

Adjust the heal, and damage potency of Assize so it can have a shorter cooldown -- like 20-30 seconds. Assize now grants a buff that makes Cure II and III an instant cast when it deals damage. Using Cure II or III gives you access to a damage GCD equal to two Glares. Afflatus Solus, and Rapture are now damage spells. A lot of its MP economy would have to be adjusted.

[Supersnow845]

I think ultimately the problem with SGE and SCH comes down to SGE has niches and SCH has niches however SGE’s niches are almost entirely geared towards accessibility of the shield healer role (namely its incredibly high mobility, its absolute lack of limits on its healing potential and its wealth of free double weave space) while SCH’s niches are almost entirely based around optimisation (seraph being better than both haima and panhaima in one ability but being annoying as hell to use, critlo, chain)

Now this wouldn’t be a problem otherwise (especially since WHM and AST are basically balanced around the same design philosophy) except unlike WHM and AST who in practice play very differently and the regen healers just aren’t that useful in high end content (lilys intentionally slow WHM down while AST has the second highest APM behind NIN) SCH and SGE functionally play almost identically. The difference being energy drain but still if you ignore energy drain (which is very possible since SCH still usually either comes in first of second in damage with no energy drain used) you can basically one to one transplant a healing plan between the two and still be almost entirely fine all the way up to ultimate

Once you reach ultimate there just isn’t really a need for SGE’s accessibility advantages, if you can do ultimate you can set up seraph 3 GCD’s in advance over pressing panhaima during the cast bar, it’s why SCH tends to dominate ultimates (it always has), if SCH was actively challenged in ultimates on another front (say its DPS options) then SGE’s accessibility would return as a factor

Unfortunately there is really no counter to spreadlo’s raw Mitigative power but it’s incredibly rare a mechanic absolutely requires spreadlo

[Supersnow845]

God please don’t remind me how ugly the TOP weapons are, I’ll never do them, which I was I’m limited on my discussion of the current ultimates but still way to make me not want to do them

[Nizzi]

God please don’t remind me how ugly the TOP weapons are, I’ll never do them, which I was I’m limited on my discussion of the current ultimates but still way to make me not want to do them

Lmao ironically the DSR SGE wep is IMO the only good healer weapons from either Ultimate this expac, I think the rest are all ugly, the SCH books especially are incredibly ugly
I only ceremonially get one for SCH for first clear pictures and then just shove the totems in my saddlebag
DSR is worth doing though if you like playing SCH or SGE, lol lmao if you enjoy AST or WHM and TOP is not a fun fight or worth doing at all unless your finite time on this earth is not valuable to you at all, but that's probably the case if you play a healer in this game at all to be honest

[Aravell]

if SCH was actively challenged in ultimates on another front (say its DPS options) then SGE’s accessibility would return as a factor

This was most recently proven in TOP. In p4, if people don't hold buffs. SCH's dps is proven lackluster compared to SGE in short phases where they can't access Chain Stratagem.