Still Waiting for that Sam/Nin nerf

[SpritePR]

Ooh so this is why I am having free kills as Samurai, people still think Guard will save them after being hit LOL

Zantetsuken just straight up misses sometimes due to server ticks and weird LOS issues. I probably misremembered guard decreasing damage by a tiny amount. Regardless not hitting the sam works.

[tinysosig]

ninja has been nerfed 4 times in a row since the inception of cc, and samurai is easy to outplay if ur being cognizant of their buffs. if the samurai were as strong u claim, they would have beaten the mongols swiftly and easily

[Astralrisk]

I think both LBs are fine when it comes to their design/function. SAM is the easiest to counter once you begin to pay closer attention to enemy LB gauges and player SFX. My only gripe is getting the chiten debuff if I hit the SAM with an AoE, even if I am not focusing them directly which ruins part of the counterplay behind it. If they just changed that I would personally think its fine the way it is. Same with NIN's LB, since it's something they can't easily abuse by themselves and is only really effective in a team fight. Only real gripe with it is the range it has, if they capped it by half I feel like it wouldn't be as egregious.

As for their overall kits I think they are fine. NIN has the strength of having an incredibly versatile kit, but with the drawback of it been a bit infrequent. The way Kissatsu is designed makes it able to adapt to whatever situation the NIN is in, but limits the NIN to not be able to be able to frequently adapt or abuse abilities. For SAM I don't think their kit is that bad either, the Ogi and Midare are telegraphed enough to where you can counter them in specific scenarios. And I don't think their sustain is that bad either, Chiten is good but besides that it doesn't feel incredibly bad either.

[Aubrey_A]

We all know it needs to happen.

Sam - LB that instant 100/0 people with little to no counter play.

Nin - LB that chain kills people at 50% health or less.

Both classes have very good survivability and sustain/burst.

Get rid of this trash Yoshi. I get it, JP bias towards these classes, but let's not forget the following facts:

1. The only reason Japan survived the mongol invasion was because a storm wiped out their fleet after they had nearly beaten the samurai into submission.

2. ninjas were memes who still got cut down by samurai because they were farmers dressed in pantyhose liners that covered their heads.

Also you know what makes me angry? The whole idea that samurai used their inferior swords (ill take a European one anyday) as anymore than a backup/status weapon.

The Japanese historically were masters of the spear/polearm, the bow, and surprisingly, axes.

If I was JP, I'd be pretty annoyed/insulted at the insane amount of historically inaccurate attention these meme longswords get compared to the literal historically legendary skill they had with spears/bows.

Hell, I'm not JP and I'm annoyed/insulted for them. It's an injustice to actual history which is cool, compared to the lame otaku garbage we have represented today.

Justice for JP history please.

Well get comfy, because based on what I read on a different thread..:

Until a critical point comes to where they absolutely need to adapt, they'll drag their feet on making iterative changes or deviations in their original plan.

I don't think we're gonna see any SAM or NIN LB changes.

But in all seriousness, what would be an adequate replacement if you wanted the SAM/NIN LBs changed? I could agree that getting killed by a SAM because of the bi-product on an AoE attack is annoying. That being said, I'm happy where SAM and NIN are currently.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Well get comfy, because based on what I read on a different thread..:



I don't think we're gonna see any SAM or NIN LB changes.

But in all seriousness, what would be an adequate replacement if you wanted the SAM/NIN LBs changed? I could agree that getting killed by a SAM because of the bi-product on an AoE attack is annoying. That being said, I'm happy where SAM and NIN are currently.

Tbh the only reason I could see LB changes for them is for them to not feel like a useless nothingburger when the conditions aren't met. Zant is easy to play around and Seiton is a hot mess with server and heal ticks.

I personally dislike NIN lb a bit, but it is nothing I'd lose sleep over.

[Aubrey_A]

Tbh the only reason I could see LB changes for them is for them to not feel like a useless nothingburger when the conditions aren't met. Zant is easy to play around and Seiton is a hot mess with server and heal ticks.

I personally dislike NIN lb a bit, but it is nothing I'd lose sleep over.

If I could change Ninja's LB, I keep the theme but change the execution. Instead of a tick/heal dependant, all-or-nothing LB, I would see the NIN LB apply a DoT. The DoT itself does damage equal to 50% of the affected jobs HP, but those ticks take place over an exceptionally short period of time (similar to what PvE Pyretic does). Same reuse effect if it scores a kill. Some counterplay against it? Yes, but will it be a secured kill if they can't recupe more than twice? Also yes

[Akimitsu]

If I could change Ninja's LB, I keep the theme but change the execution. Instead of a tick/heal dependant, all-or-nothing LB, I would see the NIN LB apply a DoT. The DoT itself does damage equal to 50% of the affected jobs HP, but those ticks take place over an exceptionally short period of time (similar to what PvE Pyretic does). Same reuse effect if it scores a kill. Some counterplay against it? Yes, but will it be a secured kill if they can't recupe more than twice? Also yes

Not sure that would work, multiple NINs working together could potentially go on a small killing spree by marking and coordinating their LBs, it would make it really cheap. Reacting to something with the dot tick speed of pyretic would be difficult and would make the 60% defense of tanks and melees in FL rather useless. If anything it might be better for NIN LB to not work through guard (nor any LB for that matter). It's not a perfect LB but it's also not the most annoying.

[Aubrey_A]

Not sure that would work, multiple NINs working together could potentially go on a small killing spree by marking and coordinating their LBs, it would make it really cheap. Reacting to something with the dot tick speed of pyretic would be difficult and would make the 60% defense of tanks and melees in FL rather useless. If anything it might be better for NIN LB to not work through guard (nor any LB for that matter). It's not a perfect LB but it's also not the most annoying.

Do you mean I could finally get that BHV DRG that spams Elusive Jump the moment they release Sky Shatter for their 2-5 FL kills?!? In all seriousness, that's a huuuuuge oversight on my part, the chain potential would be monumental across even just 2 Ninjas. To elaborate on the idea, the DoT should only take effect if the target's HP is below 50%. As well, guard should reduce the DoT damage by 90% as it does all other damage, but that's not how DoTs work in XIV.

[Nubrication]

We all know it needs to happen.

Sam - LB that instant 100/0 people with little to no counter play.

Nin - LB that chain kills people at 50% health or less.

Both classes have very good survivability and sustain/burst.

Step 1. Be good.
Step 2. Don't be not good.
Step 3. See steps 1 and 2.

But trolling aside. Instead of blaming it on the jobs, maybe learn to be more aware of their LBs. Crystal players rarely die to SAM LB. That's mostly because they have more awareness of what's going on instead of hurr durr "I hit things in front of me." Prolonged games can definitely be harder to focus but awareness is something that can be "learned." Play some casuals and try to make a habit of looking at the party and enemy list real quick every so often so that you can gauge who has LB, who's LB works well with yours, which LB is dangerous to you/your team, who has low MP, etc.

-If you don't hit the SAM while he has chiten up, you won't get 1 shot.
-If you do hit the SAM, you can LoS (line of sight) him if you're fast enough in awareness. Granted, if he already "queued" LB on you, you're still gonna die. But if one of your teammates, or EVEN YOU - stuns, silences, binds him, it should give you enough time to hit a corner. Your positioning matters a lot. If you're out in the open when you don't need to be, you're not playing effectively.
-If you know you goofed and hit the SAM with chiten (and you "know" you're going to die), then run somewhere far from your teammates - there's an offchance that 1. you'll only die alone without your teammates dying too, 2. the SAM targets your teammates and you live. And then the SAM has to wait for his long LB charge again, all for 1 lousy kill.

How to counter NIN? Sound helps. You hear the NIN LB go off on someone? Or you see that it's ready?
1. Guard (but make sure you're at a decent HP). This pretty much stops NIN LB from chaining.
2. Spam recuperate if you don't have guard.
3. You know you're gonna be focused by NIN LB? Run to Narnia so you cause the NIN to waste time going back to the main group fighting. Chances are, he's only going to get 1 kill from a long CD.

All it takes to counter these 2 jobs is a little effort from your noggin.

[Cabalabob]

I’ve been levelling a lot of my classes in frontlines and I have to say, I do think SAM needs a total rework. Not because it’s too strong, but just because nothing about the job works.

The LB is cheap and just a gimmick that makes people feel bad that they lost their battle high to something stupid. The gap closer changing your single target attacks to point blank melee range AoEs just doesn’t work because when you gap close to someone that’s running away your AoE doesn’t register as hitting them where a single target attack would and cast times on melee range attacks also just doesn’t work because people are constantly moving and end up moving out of range and interrupting it. Defensively it’s fine, it could maybe use an escape move like all the other melee, but chiten is pretty good at that because of the fear of the LB. But overall I’d say SAM is a pretty weak job that crutches on the bad mechanic that is its LB.