Thread: 7.0 Tank Wishlist

Originally Posted by dwodmots

For PLD I'd like
1)Take Shelltron/Cover/Intervention off the meter, give them a 25s shared CD with two charges
It's super annoying if you die during prog, get raised in time for the next tank buster but now your CDs don't work. Other tanks just lose some DPS but for PLD it's joever.

Isn't it the point of dying? You shouldn't.

Originally Posted by dwodmots

2)Remove the MP cost from Clemency and make it cost 30 meter instead
The meter has to do something, right?

I find it hard to fathom that you want Sheltron removed as gauge spender due to dying depleting gauge yet here we are, moving Clemency to it.

Originally Posted by dwodmots

3)Let Holy Shelltron heal per blocked attack instead of over time
This gives PLD parity with WAR when it comes to trash pulls.

Per block.. so you mean, I have to use Bulwark or Passage just to get healed by it?

Originally Posted by dwodmots

4) Reduce Hallowed Ground CD to 240s
It's just so much worse than any other tank jobs invuln right now.

With so much healing output from PLD, second only to WAR, do we still need to shorten its cooldown?

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually like the first suggestion, but not fot the same reasoning, I just think Oath gauge currently is very tacky and based off auto attacks, Personally I'd want Sheltron/Intervention to be 2 Charges 25s, as that removes the Jank, but more Importantly opportunity of adding Attacks and better stuff to the gauge, Atonement for example could be a low cost attack (costing 25 gauge?) while maybe adding a Ogcd attack that could cost higher but is a gain ect. That and actually giving tanks like PLD more combo paths would be interesting (who are generally slower)

I hate it for that exact same reason, it's just making Paladin even more like every other tank.

"Removing jank" is the reason why the role is in it's current state.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually like the first suggestion, but not fot the same reasoning, I just think Oath gauge currently is very tacky and based off auto attacks, Personally I'd want Sheltron/Intervention to be 2 Charges 25s, as that removes the Jank, but more Importantly opportunity of adding Attacks and better stuff to the gauge, Atonement for example could be a low cost attack (costing 25 gauge?) while maybe adding a Ogcd attack that could cost higher but is a gain ect. That and actually giving tanks like PLD more combo paths would be interesting (who are generally slower)

Clemency Imo, should cost MP but should be OGCD, Spamming it would ruin your damage output during magic burst, but properly using it wouldn't effect that, I'd want to say a good Idea would be around 1-2 uses per minute before it becomes a massive strain on your MP, which can be balanced out with MP costs/gains changing around, I'd also like them to Remove Self Healing from attacks as a trade off for this, This would also make PLD have some self/target healing early which i think is a good thing as PLD lacks any proper self healing until 82. I think if you gave a Early weak version of Clemency around 35 and a early version of holy spirit around 30, you could introduce this Concept Pretty early to Pld, Other tanks by then will have self healing on combos by then, which PLD lacks.

I don't want Holy sheltron to become a "heal per block" I'd sort of like it if it became part barrier part mitigation (similar to pvp without dps being tied to it), Warriors AOE healing isn't good for the game nor is it healthy for healers in particular to have a tank that can 100% ignore them, instead it should be about tanks/healers working together to keep you up.

Hallowed ground should stay the longest Invul, I want PLD to have strong upsides mind you but the long Cooldown of Invul should be a actual Downside to PLD.

The only thing that matters on an invuln is the cooldown.

Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The only thing that matters on an invuln is the cooldown.

Mostly true but if we make Hallowed has the Holmgang CD, then every Invuln has to have the Holmgang CD. Otherwise you're just going to have GNB with a worse invuln that requires you to lose all your health for the same effect with a longer CD, and no tangible upside to speak of.

The true invulns could better justify their longer CD’s if single target healing of the tank wasn’t such a joke between both the healer and the tank itself, locking your HP so that for that 10 seconds your HP bar can only go up is not inherently useless it’s just not worth how much longer their CD’s are given how easy single target healing is, again if anything the bigger problem is actually WAR for having an invuln that comes up so often that it can be used to cheese more mechanics. But then again if no tank could cheese more mechanics you may as well give them all the same CD

Honestly I think the better solution here would be to make tankbuster go through invulns which would then actually make you use them for mechanics, then they could scale the mechanics that hit the tanks harder so that they were taking proportionate damage to the party. Using an old example but say what if junction shiva the tank icicles did enough damage that they hit around the same amount of the HP bar as the normal icicles do to the rest of the party. Suddenly in that situation PLD’s invuln is way more useful than WAR’s especially since using it to ignore formless judgement isn’t an option anyway. So WAR could invuln more mechanics but PLD and GNB have do deal with less attention from the healer especially if the mechanic you are trying to invuln consumes the full 10 second duration so you are at risk as it drops off

How is auto-attacking, which every job does it, became janky as a resource generator? No matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it, it just doesn't make it as such.

Originally Posted by rawker

How is auto-attacking, which every job does it, became janky as a resource generator? No matter how hard I try to wrap my head around it, it just doesn't make it as such.

A defence CD based on Auto attacks, just isn't "unique" as people like to point it out to be, all it really does is cause PLD's defensive value to be slightly worse with downtime or when you cannot auto attack something.

I don't think having a Auto-attack 2 stack for essentially One defence CD (Cover is a meme, Intervention is just targeted holy sheltron) Is in particular worth it, instead of a Gauge that actually feels meaningful.

I meant it was more so Janky and tacked on as a "gauge" because PLD would practically play the same if you put Sheltron on two stacks and had No gauge, at least most jobs have a reason to have a gauge or more resources tied to that gauge, To me the gauge only really Hinders ways PLD could possibly be reworked or changed for the better.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

A defence CD based on Auto attacks, just isn't "unique" as people like to point it out to be, all it really does is cause PLD's defensive value to be slightly worse with downtime or when you cannot auto attack something.

I don't think having a Auto-attack 2 stack for essentially One defence CD (Cover is a meme, Intervention is just targeted holy sheltron) Is in particular worth it, instead of a Gauge that actually feels meaningful.

I meant it was more so Janky and tacked on as a "gauge" because PLD would practically play the same if you put Sheltron on two stacks and had No gauge, at least most jobs have a reason to have a gauge or more resources tied to that gauge, To me the gauge only really Hinders ways PLD could possibly be reworked or changed for the better.

“Most jobs have a reason to have a gauge”

I mean not really, BLM is about the only job that absolutely needs a gauge, almost every other class it’s a fancy representation of like one skills CD, PLD’s gauge is no better or worse than something like SAM or SMN, is actively better than jobs with redundant gauges like SCH and DRK and is about equal with classes who’s gauges just represent the ability to stack a utility CD like WHM or SGE

PLD’s gauge isn’t great but let’s not pretend like any gauge in this game besides BLM is really much more than visual clutter