Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Chasingstars]

It seems likely (although unproven) that on all three maps, optimal strategy is to build BH first, then use that to make capturing objectives easier. Indeed when I point out that you don't get any bonus points for capturing Mid on Onsal, I often get shut down by the assertion our team is there to build BH.

Battle high is more of a side effect on 2 of the 3 maps. With seal rock and onsal, having more battle high just means you can push an enemy off an objective easier. Shatter on the other hand is where battle high is more mandatory. As more battle high on your group in shatter means you break ice faster, breaking ice faster means more points especially in clutch situations, and more battle high means by proxy you can push enemies away from objectives faster.

Shatter I would say, at least from yesterday, really felt lopsided as people tried to treat it like the other two maps, leaving only around 1 to 8 people to slowly chip away at big ice while the rest go "pinching". But this also means their own team's big ice points is delayed which can be crucial thing. Even seen it with defending teams sending out their pinch parties. even if its all the way across the map. Sometimes a team that does this ends up in 1st place in the end, other times htey don't. Then you get weird standoffs, of bravado, where one team is at their designated big ice, while two other groups are at the entrance to the one with the big ice, yet neither of the enemy teams comes in. Or if one enemy team tries, they get double-pinched. Its absolutely ridiculous. As this sort of behavior is what I would expect and have seen out of 3rd and 2nd place teams that are pointlessly fighting in some grudge match on Onsal or Secure Rock while the third team scoops up points. Its a frankly dumb display of watching teams trying to force combat and therefore farm battle high. As yesterday it ended up one of the two loitering teams would have fed the other loitering team too much battle high and end up loosing. These loitering teams coming with the standard fares of dark knights, astrologians, dragoons. And the bonus about that whole thing of the two teams loitering? You can bet one of those teams has like only a handful of people slowly grinding down the big ice designated for their faction based on ramp access. Although to loop this back to battle high and other maps, battle high doesn't even mean everything. I seen premades loose because of just simply bad node spawns where one team gets back to back gold flags near their spawn.

Image below to illustrate what what I mean

[Mawlzy]

snip

So the respawn timer for the big ices restarts when the current ice pops? I play so little Shatter I was unaware of that. Does have important consequences clearly.

[OliviaLugria]

Of dotting and running, healing and shielding.

Also updated signature.

You wish that were the case. I do dot plenty. of ranged and healers and casters.

Lol, please use it in every post. Free advertisement along with making you look like a fool.

Love how you can ignore and fail to address the point that you aren't accomplishing much with your dotting running, healing, and shielding, but I suppose that's pretty normal for an argument on the internet. As always, these types of "discussions" are for people who read after, and I can only hope people see my results after yours and draw a reasonable conclusion.

For the more recent discussion, custom matches would be hype. I fully support their implementation and would like variations of 8v8v8 16v16v16 and 24v24v24. As for events...

I'm a little torn on events. Events that promote a single or set of jobs isn't that harmful or disruptive to me I feel similar about raffles and mass ques. There are benefits to stacking jobs and could occur naturally in a match. Outside of a 4 stack, there's no guarantee they end up on the same team and many don't want to do so. They aren't win trading or doing anything outright malicious. (Obvious exceptions such as kicking or harassing a rouletter for not joining the event they didn't know was happening is reportable and I would do implore them to do so)

If the event's goals deviate from the normal objectives of the mode, then there's grounds to criticize that behavior when set in regular ques. Events like onsal mid only, no ice shatter, group pose shots in match should be separated using the language settings.

[OliviaLugria]

So the respawn timer for the big ices restarts when the current ice pops? I play so little Shatter I was unaware of that. Does have important consequences clearly.

A ice respawn timer starts the moment it breaks. You can speed up your ice breaking and stall another one to increase your chance of getting a lucky repsawn and skip over another team's.

(It seemed like you understood this already but just giving an example)

[Chasingstars]

Lol, please use it in every post. Free advertisement along with making you look like a fool.

Love how you can ignore and fail to address the point that you aren't accomplishing much with your dotting running, healing, and shielding, but I suppose that's pretty normal for an argument on the internet.

Translation for what you said: "I'm still very mad at you."

Cool, thanks.

For the more recent discussion, custom matches would be hype. I fully support their implementation and would like variations of 8v8v8 16v16v16 and 24v24v24. As for events...

I'm a little torn on events. Events that promote a single or set of jobs isn't that harmful or disruptive to me I feel similar about raffles and mass ques. There are benefits to stacking jobs and could occur naturally in a match. Outside of a 4 stack, there's no guarantee they end up on the same team and many don't want to do so. They aren't win trading or doing anything outright malicious. (Obvious exceptions such as kicking or harassing a rouletter for not joining the event they didn't know was happening is reportable and I would do implore them to do so)

If the event's goals deviate from the normal objectives of the mode, then there's grounds to criticize that behavior when set in regular ques. Events like onsal mid only, no ice shatter, group pose shots in match should be separated using the language settings.

It all depends on how they will implement custom matches if it was ever implemented. Or more specifically if achievements would be allowed. As if its achievements are not part of a custom match, it would likely sour peoples attitudes towards it.

[Mawlzy]

A ice respawn timer starts the moment it breaks. You can speed up your ice breaking and stall another one to increase your chance of getting a lucky repsawn and skip over another team's.

(It seemed like you understood this already but just giving an example)

Thanks, I hadn't appreciated the potential importance of this detail.

[Aravell]

This one, in my opinion, isn't as straightforward. Yes, in the case of Onsal, the middle zone is probably the easiest place to farm BH because everyone is gathered in a single area, with each entry point being a bottleneck ladder in which easy-kill casters and ranged group up. Who needs a voke when they're all gathered together for you! Drop AoEs and LBs on them and watch the kills/assists climb. However (assuming you do the classic approach and enter the platform by your own ladder, rather than circling around a team to attack them from behind) the same layout limitations apply to your team also, so it can easily be just as unforgiving as it can be beneficial.
Premades will still continue to win here, not so much because of the DRK voke. That will still help in the holding of enemies to prevent them running, but the primary advantage here is the coordination. In a random team, few will call their LBs. Most will be using their LBs/AoEs as and when they're ready, spreading the damage and making it easier to run/heal/guard through. In a premade, the delivery will be simultaneous - a quick attack and withdraw.
This is somewhat a fault on the part of random teams playing more as an individual rather than a team. That said, even in they event they did seek to coordinate, they would still struggle to reach the same level of coordination of some premades - though the difference between them would definitely be smaller.

The funny thing about mid on Onsal is that it tends to ruin the one combo people are most fond of, DRK+RPR. It usually sends people running off the edge to safety with the hysteria debuff. Also, any premade that launches an attack through mid is immediately opening themselves up to an easy pinch.

If you stick close to the edges or near the ramp as a ranged, it's actually very safe. If RPR, they'll send you off the side and out of vertical range to be hit by DRG LB or Macrocosmos. If just DRK, Guard and go off the edge yourself. If WAR, Purify and run off the edge.

[Mawlzy]

What's the lowest losing team score y'all have seen on Onsal? Set a personal record today. 48.

[Chasingstars]

What's the lowest losing team score y'all have seen on Onsal? Set a personal record today. 48.

Thats impressive, I think the lowest I ever seen was like 76.

[Mawlzy]

Thats impressive, I think the lowest I ever seen was like 76.

Don't recall ever being in double digits before. Complete capitulation. I guess people figure when a dominant commander is running a session and is not on their team, they're going to lose 9/10 times anyway, so might as well hasten the process? Kudos to our shot-caller continuing to make calls at the 7-min mark when we were still on 0 lol.