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  1. #11
    Player
    Scintilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    173
    Character
    Taeryn Bishop
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika View Post
    snip
    I agree that things need changing and I agree that some of the blame lies within the community on both sides of the argument. Whilst the crux of current issues lies squarely on DRK's voke (which I do feel needs changing in some way, whether that is limiting the number of players it can affect or some other adjustment), even in the unlikely event that SE addresses this existing issue, another one will rise in it's place. However, I can't help but feel that removing the third team, therefore reducing Frontlines to a 2 team game, will only make existing matters far worse. There are limited counters to the current approach taken by premade teams. Yes, there are a few classes which can play a notable role in hindering a premade (MNK, RPR, WHM, WAR), but these often require experienced players to apply them: requiring someone more aware of their surroundings than an average casual player would be, someone with a knowledge of their class and it's strengths and applications within such a scenario, someone able to get in and out of the danger zone quickly whilst still doing the job, and someone able to work to the very specific timing required. As such, the likelihood of seeing these roles being effectively applied to counter premades is small - at least in EU. Therefore, the counter which is most commonly applied (and easiest to do providing the team is cooperative and determined) is for the two random teams to repeatedly pincer the premade and their alliance. If changes are made to remove the third random team from Frontlines, this only leaves one random team to somehow counter an coordinated premade alone.
    Obviously, there are some scenarios in which the third team becomes more of a headache than a help: for example, if they decide to give up first place to the premade and focus on stealing second place for themselves by siding with the premade to focus down the other random team. But, as bad as such games can be, to remove the third team from Frontlines would be far more of a hinderance than a help.

    As for the community issues, there are problems on both sides. The PvP community holds to the mantra of 'Play to Win' and, to an extent, I agree with it. Players shouldn't enter a game without wanting to put their best effort into winning it and players entering with the sole purpose of "idc, give me the exp and get me out" tend to contribute very little (and can, in fact, be a hindrance if they actively go out of their way to lose their team points and help the winning team). Unfortunately, though, these players exist on every team in every game. They are a handicap that all teams will suffer to some extent within any given game.
    However, on the side of the PvP enthusiasts, there are very different approaches towards 'Play to Win' - some will simply put in their best effort using their knowledge and experience and teamwork with the random team they were assigned. Others will actively go out of their way to shunt random teams for the openly more beneficial, better coordinated approach of forming their own premade. In most cases, this totally removes any semblance of competition from a game, with the premade alliance quickly building up a BH advantage and spending the remainder of the game flattening any team which they approach with minimal counter. Despite claims that this is 'all in the benefit of the community' (a poorly veiled attempt to disguise egoism as altruism), it does nothing of the sort. Ultimately, it reduces the skill floor by pushing more and more players out of competitive PvP. Not only this, but it pushes players against the very 'Play to Win' mantra that is supported by the community - the majority simply losing interest in competitive PvP entirely and get pushed further and further to becoming leeches, not caring about the outcome because it will obviously favour the premade ('just give me my exp'). And those few who do hold their morale and keep fighting do so in defiance, no longer playing to win, now playing just for the satisfaction of trying to stop the premade winning.
    (6)
    Last edited by Scintilla; 04-18-2024 at 10:21 PM.