Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Mawlzy]

Nope! Only used that as an example that the average premade isn't as "OP" as people make them out to be regardless of their comp. If people weren't very dismissive of the game mode and just playing well in general this wouldn't be an issue. But yes you are right, that is never going to happen. People want things handed to them with no effort in this game and you're only allowed to try your best if its Savage/Ulti raiding apparently. Nowadays I only run this mode with friends as I got all my rewards. But when I was going for the achievements I was solo 99% of the time and that is my point of view on this game mode.

Okay, I agree with that. Of the MMOs I've played, I find this community the most pleasant, but the emphasis on rewards (basically a demand to be compensated for engaging with the content) is baffling to me. Particularly in FL where, e.g., the Commander's coat which seems much-prized is... meh. I recall a thread requesting FL matches be made shorter/easier because they were unfair on completionists!?

[AriannaStormwake]

well i just left an onsal hakair team that chose to fight both blue and the red premade from the start of the match for some reason
the second match after that we got 2nd place
its odd that sometime your team will split up to engage both enemy teams

[MiyuuKatsu]

Premades in general I don't consider disruptive, and I say that as someone who mostly solo queues. While they give an advantage to the team they are on, they are not so overwhelming that they can't be overcome. The team composition problems aren't really a function of premades, they are a function of composition balances in general. As such, the best way to deal with them is limit compositions in general. In the same way that CC limits jobs, Frontline should impose a limit of no more than two identical jobs per Full Party. This would require them to remove the ability to switch your classes once you enter the Frontline. I believe this would also incentivize people to play healers and tanks because it would be the only way to guarantee their presence on your team. In case anyone thinks this will result in entire tank and healer teams, consider that tanks and healers are incentivized to join pve instances but it's mostly dps in queue. I should also add in case it was not clear that a premade trying to queue as 1DRK+3AST would be rejected and could not queue with that comp. They could also add an 8v8v8 queue without comp restrictions that is only for premades.

Essentially, a good premade in a team that is at least somewhat competent will make everything that team does better but, if the rest of the team isn't doing what they need to do a premade can't save them. A premade is a force multiplier, it's not a magic wand.

[IDontPetLalas]

Premades in general I don't consider disruptive, and I say that as someone who mostly solo queues. While they give an advantage to the team they are on, they are not so overwhelming that they can't be overcome. The team composition problems aren't really a function of premades, they are a function of composition balances in general. As such, the best way to deal with them is limit compositions in general. In the same way that CC limits jobs, Frontline should impose a limit of no more than two identical jobs per Full Party. This would require them to remove the ability to switch your classes once you enter the Frontline. I believe this would also incentivize people to play healers and tanks because it would be the only way to guarantee their presence on your team. (snip- length)

Essentially, a good premade in a team that is at least somewhat competent will make everything that team does better but, if the rest of the team isn't doing what they need to do a premade can't save them. A premade is a force multiplier, it's not a magic wand.

While this is well intended, I believe it would be overly restrictive. I understand that you're trying avoid issues due party composition, however you would run into multiple issues by not only restricting someone by a specific type of job i.e. healer, tank or dps, but by going to an even more granular level you could have a worse experience for many people. In particular, if someone has only one job levelled, that's not going to be a good experience as they could wait in queue. I also don't so the particular incentive for healers and tanks, as such, these roles do not function in FL as they do in PvE. What you're basically saying here is either "Oh, look how long the DPS queue is, I'll join on my healer or tank IF I have one) - which is very different from someone who WANTS to PvP on their healer or tank.

I would add that I have played in large-scale PvP modes where job composition was limited per roles BUT that (a) as a pre-made team (we defined an entire alliance of 24 as per PF) AND we had defined roles in those games - tanks, DPS, heals, support. Interestingingly, it was also an option to queue in some modes as randoms (solo queues) and party composition was completely random as in Frontline - it was possible to absolutely no healers, for example, in an alliance.

Finally, I would agree completely with your summary i.e. "Essentially, a good premade in a team that is at least somewhat competent will make everything that team does better but, if the rest of the team isn't doing what they need to do a premade can't save them. A premade is a force multiplier, it's not a magic wand."

[Scintilla]

They rely heavily on the same tactics and just farming BH from people who don't know how to press Guard or Recuperate

Positioning helps to an extent, yes - but some map layouts are a haven for premades with bottlenecks everywhere, Shatter being a main one, but also the centre podium of Onsal. Seal Rock suffers this to a lesser extent.

A knowledge of premade tactics and methods also helps. More experienced teams are going to be less likely to fall victim to premades so heavily and more aware of the importance of actively combatting them and working alongside the other alliance to do it. That said, these are random teams. There will always be a notable proportion of the team who are purely there for the daily and won't be so aware. While I'm not saying that things should be made easier for these players, it definitely leaves that team at a significant disadvantage when against premade teams. As much as the more experienced solo players within that team may try, with advantageous classes and/or warnings and advice to their team members, without being part of a premade team of their own there is little they can do to prevent the endless mass deaths. And, even if you are fortunate enough to be placed as part of quite an experienced team, it's very unlikely that the other random alliance will be the same. If you aren't feeding the premade, they will be.

And finally, I agree, a basic knowledge of Frontlines and PvP in general also helps... to an extent. But 'just use Guard and Recuperate' is not the magical solution that many on this forum appear to see it as. Basic DRK/DRG premades, this is fine and a perfectly workable solution. But there are numerous premades using WAR/DNC/RPR to remove Guard before destroying everything with synced LBs.


Personally, I like the 1v1v1 setup and the large team sizes (and I know that I am likely in the minority for that). And I also enjoy queuing with friends - but when we queue together, we play separately with a little friendly competition between us. I am no more synced with them than any other random player. For this reason, I would be sad to see Frontlines being made solo queue only, but I do acknowledge that premades are far too much of an issue to continue to ignore. I would prefer another solution, but if preventing pre-made parties queuing is the only way, then I'll accept it.

[Bonoki]

I miss the old days when we had Alliance A, B and C go left, right, and middle respectively. This Zerging with your team stuff is boring. I feel the only reason this happens is that nobody can 1:1 very well without backup, it's faster to build Battle highs as a unit or confront battle highs as a unit (because battle high wasn't a thing back in the old way), but I think the biggest offender that causes the zerg is the Mount Speed Upgrades being forced into PvP maps. It used to take a while to travel across the map. I do blame Mount Speed as one of the big offenders for the giant zergs.

[AriannaStormwake]

yet premaders are a rare issue with todays shatter
had to leave 3 games/teams because of bad luck with matchmaking/lowscore?
the 4th game got me a hard earned 2nd place where every team fought equally
odd such battles are so rare in frontlines haha

[Rueby]

yet premaders are a rare issue with todays shatter

I'm not sure what kind of rock you live under but from what I've seen on Chaos and Light premades are rampant in shatter. It's usually the same premade over and over.

[AnotherPerson]

I'm not sure what kind of rock you live under but from what I've seen on Chaos and Light premades are rampant in shatter. It's usually the same premade over and over.

I played on those DCs. There's a pretty strong premade group who coordinates fairly well and do really well, and they don't queue just on shatter alone. It doesn't mean you can't beat them at winning. In fact, they follow a set of patterns so it's really easy to spot and outplay them when you see them to take the win even if you can't beat them directly. I had a couple of games with coordinated groups manage to put up a good fight against those teams and even win through good leading. The main issue is that it's usually just sandbaggers who drag your teams down and give up immediately because they don't want to try, creating a very divisive gameplay experience.

[Rueby]

The main issue is that it's usually just sandbaggers who drag your teams down and give up immediately because they don't want to try, creating a very divisive gameplay experience.

It takes alot of effort from someone who just solo queues to stop or shut down a premade and most people who queue for frontlines lack the coordination and spacial awareness to respond or counter it. I always feel obliged to play a job to try and counter the premades and sometimes my team just isn't there, shadowing someone every game isn't fun to me. I used to play WHM alot before the PvP rework and I felt at least useful that I was able to heal everyone or try to, but now I am just useless.

It's tiring honestly, it took the fun out of frontlines for me and all the defeatist attitude I see in chat is just...meh. I wish I could give up too but I can't not give it my best shot otherwise to me I'm griefing, I'm not the best at it by any means and a part of me wishes DRK clicks with me but it never does nor do I enjoy it. I honestly wish I saw more people trying to fight back rather than rolling over and taking it.

I was in a frontline match in Light where people on my alliance gave up because there's a 'pro' even though I put the DRK on focus, I warned of ambush. People don't want to play. They don't want to fight. They already lost before they tried and honestly? I blame SE. This absurd amount of crowd control has no place in frontline and it's funny how queue sync'd matches without DRKs tend to be the most fun.

You tell people to fight, they give 'is this wow'and you look at their scores and they're dying 6-8 on ranged jobs. This is the majority of player that pops in frontline.

At this point I wish there was no FOMO with series levels. The more I feel I 'must' play this to get the fancy thing I want, the more I hate it and the more frustrating everything feels.