Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Mayhemmer]

While I don't disagree that BH isn't the best system, while the system is in place, you could actually try to get BH (or at least try to avoid losing it).

On the hand of course "why bother trying" takes no effort at all....

Really, if you dig into it, there's a lot about Frontlines' overall design that does what I can only describe is being 'intentionally discouraging.' Obviously, that's not the intended effect, and some of those design choices are (hopefully) made in unavoidable compromise to make things work with the whole 3-team thing. I've already pointlessly yelled at the sky about this plenty of times, so I'm pretty jaded about it at this point. Either they'll remove BH and the third team and adjust accordingly in 7.X and I'll maybe enjoy it, or they won't do any of that and nothing will have changed and oh well.

[IDontPetLalas]

Really, if you dig into it, there's a lot about Frontlines' overall design that does what I can only describe is being 'intentionally discouraging.' Obviously, that's not the intended effect, and some of those design choices are (hopefully) made in unavoidable compromise to make things work with the whole 3-team thing. I've already pointlessly yelled at the sky about this plenty of times, so I'm pretty jaded about it at this point. Either they'll remove BH and the third team and adjust accordingly in 7.X and I'll maybe enjoy it, or they won't do any of that and nothing will have changed and oh well.

Well, I happen to like 3 teams as a choice for PvP, so I wouldn't want that to disappear, especially as we do have other modes at various scales that have 2 -way teams. What you express as "intentionally discouraging" , is depending upon what we are talking about - I would rephrase as a poor user experience. You used BH as an example.

That being said, for FL specifically I really would advocate for the PvP team to try to apply more job changes that would make sense for FL rather than CC, whether that's to reduce skills AOE effects (for example), or DR, etc. Regarding BH, I imagine that Square is open to making changes to that, I doubt it would be completely removed. The issue there is how long it takes for their team to make changes.

[Mayhemmer]

Well, I happen to like 3 teams as a choice for PvP, so I wouldn't want that to disappear, especially as we do have other modes at various scales that have 2 -way teams.

I'd be more than happy to see Frontlines reduced to two teams, or at the very least, have additional modes designed only around two teams of 24. It's not as simple as saying "Less players means less AoE/CC/etc.," it's more that I see the adherence to 3 teams as too restricting to what could otherwise potentially be a very engaging mode, or at least more engaging that what it currently is.

Compromises have to be made to ensure some degree of fairness when accounting for 3 teams in objective-based modes; it's why nearly every Frontlines mode is so straightforward and same-y, and why objective spawns are primarily randomized. In theory: in unorganized chaos, every team is on equal footing. It mostly works as intended, I just think it's incredibly uninspired, and see it as a shame that FL can't seem to move past modes that are only some variation of 'click/stand on thing to get [X-amount] of points.'

The adherence to 3 teams doesn't just stifle mode and map design, it's the root of a lot of balance issues as well. Currently, battle high could be seen as an answer to the abundance of damage reduction modifiers, yet those modifiers only have a reason to exist due to the sheer abundance of damage sources the player has to deal with at any given time. I've said this before, but the modifiers don't exist in Rival Wings because the mode doesn't need them with it's smaller player count, and it functions just fine. I mentioned in another thread that after the changes to Shatter, fights of only two teams are far more common, and that the absence of that third group was making those fights more enjoyable for me, as there are fewer nukes and CC going off. If there's less cheese present, you run into less cheese.

The game also frequently struggles to keep up with so much activity at once in FL. I guess it's just kind of accepted at this point that you can get hit for full damage of abilities that guard should have mitigated when pressed well beforehand, or that you can get CC'd from well outside applicable ranges, but the fact remains that it still happens, and very commonly. Again, not an issue I've experienced in modes with fewer players.

What you express as "intentionally discouraging" , is depending upon what we are talking about - I would rephrase as a poor user experience. You used BH as an example.

In the current state of FL, there's not much BH does that isn't just contributing to glaring issues with balance. It's biggest crime currently is it's contribution to the already overabundant number of options players have of getting away with things that should have rightfully gotten them K.O.'d otherwise. Aravell is right in that it doesn't need to go away, it just needs to be tuned to not be a crutch used to enable cheese.

Well look at me, yelling at the sky again.