Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Doozer]

It's not an "AST issue". Prior to this, it was A "SMN" issue. If you nerf ASTs (and this wouldn't be the first time), then it would be "nerf DRKs", not to mention there have been multiple cries to nerf various melee jobs.

Also- as you say, limiting the number of a specific job that can queue isn't practical. imagine, you want to queue as - let's say- a machinist. Game says - nope- too many in queue? Or- you've already entered, you want to switch. but the game says- sorry , we have "x" number of machinists, you can't have more? I don't see that working.

The most practical suggestion I've seen is likely a combination of adjustments to several jobs, and that would include limiting AOE effects to no more than 5 players at a time, so that it could be applied to CC as well as FL, since the devs seem very reluctant to separate FL and CC job development.

Finally- I don't know what the screen grab has to do with this discussion? If someone forms a premade and they beat you, it isn't "disruptive gameplay", they're not "ruining the game for other people". They're playing with their friends. You can do the same.

Regarding "guaranteed to win" pretty rare to see a premade that never loses, but if that's how you feel when you're up against that specific premade then it goes double-why not form a premade, or if you know them well by know, try shot-calling?

First of all, I never said it was an AST issue. In fact, I said that it's not any single job, but multiples of some being stacked together. And you're saying my suggestions to nerf won't work, but "adjustments" will? Okay semantics.

The screen grab has something to do with it because when confronted about their behaviour, they revel in it. Look at the posts above you, it's relevant.

You also really don't understand that the solution to a party comp that always wins is not the same party comp. Ever heard of how fighting fire with fire just makes more fire? And yes, every time I've seen that specific group, they've won every single time. They don't have to be strategic, they don't even have to take the objectives, they just follow the single DRK, pull in a bunch of people, nuke them, repeat. They always win. I've never seen them lose. They win enough that they're committed to doing it all the time. Do you really not understand? Shot-calling does nothing. There are people trying to win by grouping up and playing better and it still doesn't stop these people, hence my problem. Stop putting the blame on me and start acknowledging that something is wrong.

[IDontPetLalas]

First of all, I never said it was an AST issue. In fact, I said that it's not any single job, but multiples of some being stacked together. And you're saying my suggestions to nerf won't work, but "adjustments" will? Okay semantics.

The screen grab has something to do with it because when confronted about their behaviour, they revel in it. Look at the posts above you, it's relevant.

You also really don't understand that the solution to a party comp that always wins is not the same party comp. Ever heard of how fighting fire with fire just makes more fire? And yes, every time I've seen that specific group, they've won every single time. They don't have to be strategic, they don't even have to take the objectives, they just follow the single DRK, pull in a bunch of people, nuke them, repeat. They always win. I've never seen them lose. They win enough that they're committed to doing it all the time. Do you really not understand? Shot-calling does nothing. There are people trying to win by grouping up and playing better and it still doesn't stop these people, hence my problem. Stop putting the blame on me and start acknowledging that something is wrong.

So, what exactly are you trying to do here? You're talking about my "blaming" you, when you're posting about an issue that you're having, which I know nothing about, and when I make some suggestions about how you might succeed with what sounds like a specific premade, you get self-defensive.

What is your objective here? Do you want to win your matches, or do you want to go ahead and start nerfing jobs? Because I prefer to find out how to win. Because frequently (not always), when the discussion goes to "nerf this job"- then the people who want a job nerfed then move on to the next target, and the cycle of nerfs and buffs goes on and on. In any case- it won't help you right now.

No one is forcing you to use the same composition. I didn't say that. I've been in fights where we beat teams that *should* have beat us because they had the "meta" jobs- but they didn't. I suggested shot-calling, because you seem to have come up against them often enough to have learned their tactics- if you can't understand why that should help you- then I agree, something sounds very wrong, that premade is playing better than you, and they deserve to win.

[Doozer]

So, what exactly are you trying to do here? You're talking about my "blaming" you, when you're posting about an issue that you're having, which I know nothing about, and when I make some suggestions about how you might succeed with what sounds like a specific premade, you get self-defensive.

What is your objective here? Do you want to win your matches, or do you want to go ahead and start nerfing jobs? Because I prefer to find out how to win. Because frequently (not always), when the discussion goes to "nerf this job"- then the people who want a job nerfed then move on to the next target, and the cycle of nerfs and buffs goes on and on. In any case- it won't help you right now.

No one is forcing you to use the same composition. I didn't say that. I've been in fights where we beat teams that *should* have beat us because they had the "meta" jobs- but they didn't. I suggested shot-calling, because you seem to have come up against them often enough to have learned their tactics- if you can't understand why that should help you- then I agree, something sounds very wrong, that premade is playing better than you, and they deserve to win.

You are blaming me, because you're assuming/implying that the only reason why we don't beat them is because we aren't trying hard enough, or that I'm not shot-calling. Suggesting it as a solution implies that would fix it, which wouldn't. I know their strat, it's the DRK runs in with 6 healers covering him, pulls everyone in, and then the ASTs all nuke everyone. The only solution is to Guard and that's not always available. You can't outheal the damage as it's happening. How would shot-calling fix that? Say "don't go there, you'll die"? What if that's the objective? You have to understand that this enemy team doesn't play normally because they can always win. They don't scurry around and try to flank or pinch, they just run in and kill everyone because that specific comp lets them.

My objective is I want match outcome to be based in skill and not whether one party has DRKs and ASTs in large numbers all grouping together. And that last bit is a joke, and after reading that I would be surprised if you sometimes took part in that kind of behaviour. Everyone who has played against them hates it because there's no chance to win no matter what. Get your head out of their asses and realize this.

[IDontPetLalas]

You are blaming me, because you're assuming/implying that the only reason why we don't beat them is because we aren't trying hard enough, or that I'm not shot-calling. Suggesting it as a solution implies that would fix it, which wouldn't. I know their strat, it's the DRK runs in with 6 healers covering him, pulls everyone in, and then the ASTs all nuke everyone. The only solution is to Guard and that's not always available. You can't outheal the damage as it's happening. How would shot-calling fix that? Say "don't go there, you'll die"? What if that's the objective? You have to understand that this enemy team doesn't play normally because they can always win. They don't scurry around and try to flank or pinch, they just run in and kill everyone because that specific comp lets them.

My objective is I want match outcome to be based in skill and not whether one party has DRKs and ASTs in large numbers all grouping together. And that last bit is a joke, and after reading that I would be surprised if you sometimes took part in that kind of behaviour. Everyone who has played against them hates it because there's no chance to win no matter what. Get your head out of their asses and realize this.

So, it seems that you've made up your mind as to what the problem is and are open to any other resolution.

I'll try anyways, so- I doubt that Square will enforce composition limits, that may enforce job design changes that would be compatible with CC ( which I think would be the best solution).

In the meantime, unless Square makes changes, you could always leave when you see that premade, which is, by definition "playing normally" it seems, and beating you on skill, unless you suspect that they are using.. shall I say..assistance? By the way- you can deflect on me all that you want - but I solo queue.

[Doozer]

So, it seems that you've made up your mind as to what the problem is and are open to any other resolution.

I'll try anyways, so- I doubt that Square will enforce composition limits, that may enforce job design changes that would be compatible with CC ( which I think would be the best solution).

In the meantime, unless Square makes changes, you could always leave when you see that premade, which is, by definition "playing normally" it seems, and beating you on skill, unless you suspect that they are using.. shall I say..assistance? By the way- you can deflect on me all that you want - but I solo queue.

I'll be honest, I'm sick of talking to you. Everything you say is dripped in "git gud" when player skill isn't the problem. Which is what I've been saying the whole time. You won't understand me no matter how I rephrase things since I don't think you'd know player skill if it bit you in the ass, so maybe it's time to just drop it. And by "maybe" I mean I don't plan to reply to you anymore so don't bother continuing. It's a waste of time. You will anyway, saying "aha, so you admit you're bad! I win!" but I won't be looking at it. Nothing you've said to anyone in this thread has been constructive whatsoever, so why bother. You're less interesting than the person that's just been trolling for the past week.