Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Mawlzy]

I dont suppose people in a random team in frontlines feeding one of the opposite teams with kills/or points counts as disruptive?
ive seen it happen few times frontline starts people start fighting BOTH teams,the obvious premade wins with drk pull/stun chains after that pull and LB use at the same time(premades should have their own separate pvp instances against other premades)

I've seen an increasing number of instances on Aether in which a team gets smacked by an obvious premade a couple of times and then throws to that team to get it over quicker. Like it's advocated in chat. Seems overly defeatist to me, but reflective of the growing frustration with the mixed queue.

[AriannaStormwake]

ah i see nevermind that they start pvping against both teams and guess who ends up lowscore third?
id rather leave when such teams do that as its not worth my time

[Raionek]

No matter the game and how you balance it. There always gonna be meta.
FFXIV is overbalanced in many cases. That annoys people a lot. Like in pve all jobs got almost the same skill kit.

The only way to avoid in PVP things like "everyone plays the same combination of characters because it is the strongest" - is to make all jobs do pretty much the same thing.
Do you really want that? I would rather look for ways to deal with that kind of combination. Like having specific players in your party to do the same thing or just insta-kill the annoying players as samurai or something.

In the current meta you can pretty much always find a way how to counter something specific.

[Chasingstars]

No matter the game and how you balance it. There always gonna be meta.
FFXIV is overbalanced in many cases. That annoys people a lot. Like in pve all jobs got almost the same skill kit.

The only way to avoid in PVP things like "everyone plays the same combination of characters because it is the strongest" - is to make all jobs do pretty much the same thing.
Do you really want that? I would rather look for ways to deal with that kind of combination. Like having specific players in your party to do the same thing or just insta-kill the annoying players as samurai or something.

In the current meta you can pretty much always find a way how to counter something specific.

Meanwhile I can look at a starting party comp in frontlines and get a pretty good feel of what the match is going to be. "Oh we only have one tank or only one healer and the rest are dps? Guess we are coming in second or third today as we don't really have a frontline".

Also its a lie to say "You can pretty much always find a way how to counter something specific" when most people don't treat frontlines more than as a free exp roulette. And therefore why should people give any actual thought into how something seems unbalanced or how to counter it. As for the average person they play it once a day at most then they are done. If they do more runs its because they are on a winstreak. Meanwhile if they get a 3rd place, they might just end their ff14 session early because they feel too frustrated at "not being able to get 1st place enough times" for a title or a mount or piece of glamour.

[RyanCousland]

hmmm ive only had a cursory look at this thread but seems like its the same as all others that have an issue with DRG,DRK,SCH,AST in FL or any other class so the only solution i have is to remove the ability of changing your class during a match, i imagine this might hinder those that are trying to level one class then change to the supposed meta whether or not this is good or bad i cant say but aside from creating a separate large scale HB toolkit, or removing LBs from FL, theres not much that can be done for the state of FL

[Bonoki]

Can't do much about premades, and removing frontlines as the last bastion of premades since CC doesn't probably isn't healthy either. (You wouldnt be able to queue with your friends!)

I think people need to accept that until a deeper solution is addressed, you need to cave into the meta jobs. I can't tell you how many times I pop into a Frontlines, see no tank so I take it upon myself to go DRK instead, but the rest of the party is all Physical Ranges and Sage. So, I think to myself, "Welp this is probably a lose." Basically, what I'm saying is that party make up can influence alliance moral at the start of a match as well. If I queue in and I see DRGs, DRKs, ASTs, ect. I'm more like "Ooo~ We have the fire power~" and far more likely to follow Mr Triangle over his head. It's unfortunate but playing the job you wanna play just isn't gonna really cut it if you wanna win. PvP is unfortunately one those modes where Meta does sort of matter. It is by no means mandatory and nobody gonna tell you that you have to do it, but you need to accept reality that you are making things for harder yourself and everyone else by not playing such jobs.

This is the main issue, people being too pvp casual to even think of countering the premades, or worse, unwilling to even try to work with the rest of their alliance. Those people just deserve to lose, and they don't care, since they are only here for the XP. If people realized that -since a lot of them do the FL roulette at least once a day- they should take 10 minuts to figure out a burst and the rest of their skills at the Wolves Den Pier, things would go differently. This is also SE's fault; some tutorials might be good.

The problem is, you can't really counter those premades. Not unless your group suddenly magically decides to get organized and change jobs so you can fight fire with fire. By the time you realize that the enemy alliance is an organized group, it's probably already too late. They got a plunge or two in with Battle Highs now built up and even focus targeting only goes so far when they zerg their whole alliance on you. In order to counter an alliance at this point, you pretty much need to sacrifice the game to fight them, which you're probably feeding more than anything. The only true counter is to run away when you see them and try to play for objectives strictly. This is one of those situations where premades are only so busted because of the Battle High mechanic. If that was no longer a thing then we would be back to equal skill issues. But an alliance with a strong Battle high lead over an alliance without any is a recipe for one to get destroyed and bodied.

[AriannaStormwake]

i think also disrupting is sort of peoples defeatist attitude and premades with drk you say things like"let them win so i get my free exp for no effort" i dislike such people for obvious reasons
why dont you put those in their own queues to steamroll and afk against others that play the same as them huh?
do they have a reason why those 2 kind of players have no separate pvp map instances of their own

when i get teams who have lowscore third place and are ganked by premades id rather leave i need the tomes not the exp but prefer 2nd place than 3rd with no score
can do castrum/dalriada on alts while waiting for the 30 mins debuff on my main its not a big deal i just prefer teams who atleast try(like yesterdays first place win we got from the very beginning of the match)

not angry about these things just upset or shocked?

[Doozer]

Every day I do Frontlines it's the same premade group just steamrolling everyone. It's supposed to be objective based on all maps but this one team almost completely ignores objectives and just nukes every enemy player. There is no effective counter because even if you kill one of them your team will still lose.

FL is impossible to win on Crystal if one specific group of players is in the match, unless they're on your team. It's no longer competitive, it's just They Win and that's all. Something needs to be changed about the ability to stack a team full of ASTs with one DRK because that's literally all it takes to guarantee a win, and most players are above that kind of tactic.

[Mawlzy]

Every day I do Frontlines it's the same premade group just steamrolling everyone. It's supposed to be objective based on all maps but this one team almost completely ignores objectives and just nukes every enemy player. There is no effective counter because even if you kill one of them your team will still lose.

FL is impossible to win on Crystal if one specific group of players is in the match, unless they're on your team. It's no longer competitive, it's just They Win and that's all. Something needs to be changed about the ability to stack a team full of ASTs with one DRK because that's literally all it takes to guarantee a win, and most players are above that kind of tactic.

Probably worth noting that the only people who have definitive stats on this are SQEX themselves. They can determine unequivocally:

The impact of premades on team win-rates
The win-rates of premades overall
The win-rates of premades as a function of composition

My strong suspicion is that if they take the trouble to analyze such data, the problems will leap out at them like a burst of synchronized LBs.

[IDontPetLalas]

Probably worth noting that the only people who have definitive stats on this are SQEX themselves. They can determine unequivocally:

The impact of premades on team win-rates
The win-rates of premades overall
The win-rates of premades as a function of composition

My strong suspicion is that if they take the trouble to analyze such data, the problems will leap out at them like a burst of synchronized LBs.

and then they'll do what? I don't expect them to block premades, and I wouldn't want them to block premades, either. So fine- what about adjusting the algorithm so that specific premades can't enter? Well, the counter-argument to that is (1) unless it's coded in that nothing blocks anyone from changing once they're inside- so someone in that pre-made could just change roles anyway and (2) there's nothing to block someone at any time from changing to a more needed role in an
alliance , but people frequently don't (and thanks to those of you who do)- so why penalize premade compositions?

In addition. let's say that having a premade does have a statistical advantage. I expect that - yes, it does, it would be interesting to know just how big it is, it likely varies according to the premade, and isn't just based upon a specific composition by job, I would hope Square also takes specific players so that player experience could also be analyzed (win rates, number of FL matches, years, whatever).