Hardcorefest (Fun)vs Grindfest

[Gukie]

When I asked Se to make this game more Hardcore.
I don't mean make it a Grind fest...

When I asked se to make this game more Time consuming...
I don't mean make it like a 2nd job...

I like the changes on Ifrit(Extreme) and the changes on Gertruda(Garuda) or I mean how they made garuda part of a battle you had to do for artifact...
but for hamlet It feels like a grindfest...

but Hamlet... is a grindfest- You spend most of your time gathering a huge amount of # then you spend a hug amount of time crafting the same item over and over and over and over. Then you turn them in to recieve 1-20 place in hamlet to try to get a seal.
or
you can support RMT- buy gil and pay for it.
or
you can actually make gil legit in your own way if you don't have gathering to 50 and or crafting to 50 and purchase the item to be top 1-20
or
you can just join random players and hope it drops on you.

Then you have to do hamlet where you sit and craft or gather or stand in a spot and regen npc or run around with Special mobs in hamlet going afk now and then as tank... waiting till the npc kills the mobs
Or
you can play the way you want with what job you want but then again you'll most likely never get max points. (But seriously) why does everything has to be with specific jobs to max out something.

By hardcore I don't mean do the same thing over and over and over and over and over until you get the item...

By hardcore for example::::> for the gathering part- make us fight a notorious monster that takes a specific amount of time to pop- not every 5 minutes >.>....
where the miner can pick the head of the monster- the botanist can chop the horn of the monster or the fisherman can skin the skin of the monster after it dies. (Your chances should vary on your rank gear and NEW SKILL for each gathering job that increases chances ;D so you have an advantage when you have all 3 gathering job ranked up) You'd be considered a master gatherer or something.
The notorious monster doesn't even have to be a timed pop, it could easily be a npc give us a quest: where we have to gather a rare item that can be sold in wards to other players to pops a monster where you still got gather the monster after death for an item that can be sold. There should be a notorious monster for each city for each hamlet.
The monster you kill must be something difficult like Garuda or extreme Ifrit.
that's how the gathering part should be.

For Crafters- they would only need to craft an item out of the notorious monster tha gatherer's gatherer from special monster. At least you only need to craft 1 rare item instead of 30 stack of hamlet to be 1st.... Hoping that no one else turns in 3mil point >.> happened before.

Then for hamlet... remove all that boring stuff....
and just give us a fight with a cool looking monster.
gathering job should be gathering in different location and finding items that can be stored in the crafters box to create stuff such as chains that allows the battle job to constrict the boss (Stun, Bind) from moving while Range job can still attack it without breaking the chains. Allow crafters and gathering jobs to be able to use stone throw for stun.
if there was a minner + Armory or Blacksmith
HQ chain would last 1minute stun AOE
Nq chain would last 1 minute bind AOE
HQ enhance Power of npc last 6 minute
nq enhance power of npc last 1 minute
We would also have specific cool looking NPC support battle on our side(Such as the Cid ^-^)

At least it make sense why gathering would need perception ---- gathering skill ---- and Output in hamlet. same for crafters.

Monster would summon forth minions that crafters can aoe bind w/ chains.

Then if there was an alchemist in party + Botanist --- we could make potion-
Such as:
HQ= Aoe Regen + npc last 2minute 2k hp overtime.
nq= Aoe heal + npc 500 hp


Or miners can created traps as well as botanist and fisherman.
dig a whole- chop half a tree so if someone walk by it falls on them and chop the hp.
have a net trap them or so on.


thats just the example of how hamlet should of been.

Instead of run here run there run here run there run here run there...
or stand in middle and just spam regen on npc... or just pull special monster and go afk ._.

do you guys got any ideas?

[yukikaze_yanagi]

yes, i got an idea:
don't do a thread with hardcore vs casual in title, because they get a flame-hole. Seriusly.
Also, your idea of hardcore is still really time consuming. Also also, crafters aren't fighting class, so your idea will never actuable.
also also also, this isn't a hardcore vs casual shit, it's just your dream hamlet and i don't like it

[Alhanelem]

When I asked Se to make this game more grindcore.
I don't mean make it a hardcore fest...

When I asked se to make this game less Time consuming...
I don't mean make it like a no time at all thing...

... lol I can't keep it up. Anyway-

Hardcores and casuals can coexist. The fact is hardcores are a minority. Not all content can be built for hardcore. I don't think Hamlet defense (which is what you're really complaining about) is going to be an endgame activity in the long term. Thus, I wouldnt really change it much. Eventually, you will be moving on to a new endgame content and you won't care about Hamlet anymore, it will become a more casual thing.

The fact is, for a more casual player who hasn't spammed it enough to get it perfect yet, hamlet defense can actually be kind of challenging. My first few runs were with pickup groups and we all got humiliated. Then I went with a more planned out team with a specific goal in mind and it went smooth as butter. Difficulty is subjective.
edit-

yes, i got an idea:
don't do a thread with hardcore vs casual in title, because they get a flame-hole. Seriusly.

Pretty much this... don't throw around words like hardcore and casual when that's not really the issue of the thread.

[Gukie]

This has nothing to do with Hardcore vs causality
and
It's not that I want them to make crafters or gathering job a battle job-
its that they should go back to where you can just hold a mining pick- and still be a whitemage.
I like the still of having your own gathering or crafter as a job; but do you really got change your job when you craft? not really it's just an extra thing you got do for no reason.

[Gukie]

it isn't an issue about hardcore or causality- it's about how boring hamlet is.
We constantly have to do hamlet over and over and over and over to get all seals.
or
we constaintly craft over and over and over and over.

It shouldn't be grinding Spamming same thing over and over and over the way i keep saying or and or and or and.

It should be fights that's fun to do. not having to do it over and over and over.

overall it should be based on your skill.
like ifrit Extreme and garuda,
not a time consuming boring thing you do in hamlet.

I also forgot to say I don't mind time consuming stuff, But at least fun??? and challenging? not spamming over and over and over.

Unless your trying to get a drop off hamlet like the miner hat- that should be rare drop
seal's shouldn't be that rare if the battle was worth the drop.
The battle should be the hard part to actually get a seal.
then again hamlet is easy... and that's what makes it boring...


The amount of time you do get Artifact weapon is fine....
the things you do to get it??? is borring...

Ifrit and garuda is fine-
hamlet is borring... getting stuff to get into hamlet is even more boredom and grind fest.

Crafting is fun in a way but if you got craft 2970 time to get in hamlet to be first... or even get it to rank 2 that stuff is borring. It should be based on your effort- not the effort that the rest of the server gives. You can slack also and go in since the server made it to 2nd rank. (that right there inst fair)

[Hyrist]

I woulden't call that a Hardcorefest Gukie.

And there is a lot more we can add than just making it hard for everything to happen. Some people like the serenity of being able to sit and craft to their heart's content, or to go to battle with a piece you sweat and toiled at to make happen like the olden days of forging.

All this concept of chasing after old legendary weapons and figthing bosses really does pull out of loop the desire of actually MAKING something that's legendary. I donno about you but the concept of sitting and toiling at a weapon that could cross swords with Excaibur and not burst in to broken shards on the first swing is appealing to me, even if Excalibur ultimately ends up being the better weapon - The feel if being able to make something like that would be an awesome draw to crafting. (Which is why people requested abjuration gear, though I'd rather ask for a different, more open minded system.)

Though, I get the feeling of what you're trying to pitch: A game with entrenched excitement in most of it's aspects, rather than the feeling of 'work work work' instill the feeling of adventure in every part of the game. I understand it, but I don't believe you approach is correct.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

it isn't an issue about hardcore or causality- it's about how boring hamlet is.
We constantly have to do hamlet over and over and over and over to get all seals.
or
we constaintly craft over and over and over and over.

It shouldn't be grinding Spamming same thing over and over and over the way i keep saying or and or and or and.

It should be fights that's fun to do. not having to do it over and over and over.

overall it should be based on your skill.
like ifrit Extreme and garuda,
not a time consuming boring thing you do in hamlet.

I also forgot to say I don't mind time consuming stuff, But at least fun??? and challenging? not spamming over and over and over.

Unless your trying to get a drop off hamlet like the miner hat- that should be rare drop
seal's shouldn't be that rare if the battle was worth the drop.
The battle should be the hard part to actually get a seal.
then again hamlet is easy... and that's what makes it boring...

That's an entirely different story, and anything related to hardcore or casual.
Btw, we all know actuall content is only to keep us busy, and they don't have enough time and manpower to do something more elaborated before 2.0.
The real endgame come with crystal tower and whatever else will come after, so whining on hamlet now it's kinda pointless. Isn't even an "endgame" feature to begin with

[Gukie]

I totally understand that this is to keep us entertained until 2.0--- but i still think that a person or company should give us what they plan on giving us-
---hyrist
You probably don't understand me very well I just don't speak english good.

But mainly by point is---- crafting for a quest should be simple and quick- but the item should be rare-

crafting for your own goods - that's a different story.

Gathering for a quest should be easy and simple- just have to go through something hard to fight or rare item to gather.

gathering for your own goods- thats a different story. I don't mind grinding on gathering for my own goods.

Now what we do in hamlet is borring and we got spam it. over and over and over...

What we do in ifrit extreme is fun- what we do in garuda is fun-
what we had to do in the dungeon was fun also- except when your going for darklight... it becomes the feeling of a job. but what we had to do to get the item to drop for artifact was perfectly fine. had to beat it quick without failing the time.

the individual job 4 man party for the artifact is also chalenging and fun to do.

but again hamlet is grindfest.

[Gramul]

I like having a grind. As long as there's content to fill it up.

The concept of making my character stronger through training has a lot of appeal to me and being able to jump to max level in a few days really sucks out a lot of the satisfaction.

XI had a lot of quests and missions that helped to make the grind more of a journey (to me at least). You had to go theough a wide variety of zones and hop in dangerous dungeons by youself or with a party without time limits. Felt more like an adventure than a list of various chores to do at max level.
Then again, I never got to max level in XI, so...


Also, hamlet just sucks.

[Hyrist]

So the subject is primarily about Hamlet's First Stage, eh?

I can't blame you for feeling a bit bored about that, but the issue is more about drop-rates for it than anything. Let those who want to do the supply aspects of it do the supply aspects of it.

Overall I think the loot system in general for this game could use a bit of help, and I think most people can agree on that. There's too much that emphasis on repeat or compete, but there's no really steady progress on it. It wouldn't seem like a grind if rewards were easier and more consistent, but you'd have to collect them over time. And you can keep the 'grind' out of it by making each run variable to a certain degree, and offer differing rewards in them as well. You get your steady progress, get randomly 'rewarded' by something unique, but consumable to balance it, and you enjoy the game-play.

You can even make some of the consumable stuff a dependable drop that may encourage you to go just to farm that consumable.