Aloalo Criterion is DEAD

[Caro178]

Doesnt matter if the content is good if the rewards is trash.

As someone who has done this and just posted a long complaint about the reward system (specifically the rarity of the mount drop) I do think it matters that the content is good. It matters very much. Content being fun is the #1 to me, but it's true that content longevity is not usually tied to how fun it is, but rather what you can get out of it in the long run. Normal mode is basically a training ground for clearing savage which is awkward design even if the new exquisite weapons are an attractive flex.

TLDR I like the Criterions and I'm glad they didn't give up on them after the first few flops. I hope they experiment more and take some of the criticism to heart in their design philosophy going forward.

[Saraide]

Doesnt matter if the content is good if the rewards is trash.

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

[Absurdity]

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

They're not wrong though, most people don't do the content just for the content itself. They need some kind of reward equivalent to the time invested into said content, especially for repeat completions.

[Zairava]

The most mmo player opinion ever. This is why this genre is bad.

Yeah lets just not release content with rewards for players to chase keep them invested. Lets just make all content dead on arrival because there's nothing to gain from it.

Surely that will go over well in an MMO that MMO players are looking to sink their teeth into.

[Caro178]

Yeah lets just not release content with rewards for players to chase keep them invested. Lets just make all content dead on arrival because there's nothing to gain from it.

Surely that will go over well in an MMO that MMO players are looking to sink their teeth into.

Man, this ain't even in response to me but this is such a strawman argument. They never said they had no issues with the current Criterion reward system, they said that the content being fun is also important and they are, in fact, correct. Ideally we want both, not one or the other. Choosing between "fun" and "good rewards" is a battle where everyone loses in the end.

Case in point, I'm now at 15 clears of Another Aloalo with my entire group not having found a single mount between us. That's 60 rolls to get a mount between the 4 of us with nothing to show for it. The drop rate is absolutely ridiculous for the time investment.

[Zairava]

Man, this ain't even in response to me but this is such a strawman argument. They never said they had no issues with the current Criterion reward system, they said that the content being fun is also important and they are, in fact, correct. Ideally we want both, not one or the other. Choosing between "fun" and "good rewards" is a battle where everyone loses in the end.

...Where did I say it shouldn't be fun? Yes it should be fun, and it is widely acclaimed to be. You aren't going to keep retention with a mass of people just by making it fun. If you're trying to make it sound like I meant it should be one or the other then you're just putting words in my mouth.

[hynaku]

If it's not popular then wonder if they will not add any in 7.0.

[Caro178]

If it's not popular then wonder if they will not add any in 7.0.

They've already announced that Criterions are in development for 7.0. so I expect that door is already closed. Ultimately the normal Variant modes have apparently been very popular and players have interacted with them a ton on their own time, some solo, some in groups, but enough that they have significant data that these are worth pursuing more. Basically these dungeons are fairly inexpensive to create and XIV design always starts with the hard mode and then works back to create the normal difficulty (they've said in the past savage raids are the same.) They've said they will continue to experiment with different rewards so we can only wait and see what happens. I personally would be very sad to lose the Criterions now because with some tweaking of drop rates and such I think they could feel like the perfect little activity to engage with between savage raid tiers and ultimates for me and my friends.

[Zairava]

If it's not popular then wonder if they will not add any in 7.0.

As Caro said before me, they have already stated they will be in Dawntrail.

The content itself sees widespread praise, it just the rewards are lackluster as all hell. Which they have repeatedly asked for feedback on, and that the test they put in for Aloalo would determine how they implement it in the future. (whether that'll be good or bad we have yet to see).

As what has been repeated a quintillion times by now, if they were to allow us to augment tome gear (armor/accessories AND weapon) in criterion normal with weekly lockouts the noise would die down by a fair margin.

[Caro178]

As Caro said before me, they have already stated they will be in Dawntrail.

The content itself sees widespread praise, it just the rewards are lackluster as all hell. Which they have repeatedly asked for feedback on, and that the test they put in for Aloalo would determine how they implement it in the future. (whether that'll be good or bad we have yet to see).

As what has been repeated a quintillion times by now, if they were to allow us to augment tome gear (armor/accessories AND weapon) in criterion normal with weekly lockouts the noise would die down by a fair margin.

I don't know how much you've engaged with the "Another" dungeon modes, but someone who can't clear a third turn of savage will never be able to make a dent in them. I really mean that sincerely. If they are ever going to make this an alternative gearing option to savage for catch-up it is going to require re-designing the difficulty curve as well as the min/max ilevel restriction. Another Aloalo is unironically harder than P10S and P11S which drop augment materials, not to mention it came out not that long after the alliance raid/hunt train update which provide the most casual gear catch up. This is why I haven't been very supportive of the opinion that just slapping tome augment materials into these dungeons will fix them. It's a weak solution provided by people who haven't actually touched the content that won't see interaction long-term when the devs clearly want these dungeons to be evergreen challenge mode difficulty stuff similar to ultimates for bored raiders between tiers.