Would you rather healers get more complex healing kits or more complex DPS kits?

[Katish]

Agreed.

The problem isn't just "some people are bored". It's more extensive than that. That's why merely shoving a handful of DPS buttons at people won't fix the problem. The people who ARE mollified will probably get bored again soon enough, content will still be cleared without healers, and the people who DIDN'T want more DPS buttons are still upset. It doesn't actually fix anything, it just papers over a bit of the problem, and even that, with only a subset of the playerbase. The actual problem left to fester and continue to grow.

The longer it takes to address, the worse it will get and the harder it will be to address.

This isn't a one problem issue though, it's several problems across the board. Of course one solution won't be enough to fix that. There are several issues present and not even all of them are related to fight design (which makes it easier to address) within the role: lack of dps skills (fulfillment), healing bloat, all healing skills answering the same prompt of more healing, gear score creep, other classes that can fill the healer niche outside the healer, casters being behind other dps this expansion (so healers as a subcaster suffer), and the list goes on. A singular solution will not make everyone happy obviously, nor will it address every issue, but a work to change things will at least appease some. The real de facto is, there has been no change at all to the gameplay outside making it easier, which increases the monotony of the role without giving anything back to it. So how would you address that? I would say the real solution is to address the role's jobs at all angles. Ask the question, determine a solution.

[Aravell]

This isn't a one problem issue though, it's several problems across the board. Of course one solution won't be enough to fix that. There are several issues present and not even all of them are related to fight design (which makes it easier to address) within the role: dps skills, healing requirements, gear score creep, other classes that can fill the healer niche outside the healer, casters being behind other dps this expansion (so healers as a subcaster suffer), and the list goes on. A singular solution will not make everyone happy, but a work to change things will. There has been no change to the gameplay outside making it easier which increases the monotony of role.

Everytime I see someone say that increasing healing requirements only or adding damage buttons only is enough to fix the role, I can't help but wonder if they actually understand the root issues of the healer role. It's not exactly simple to fix after so much decay, but fixing only one aspect without touching on the rest is just as likely to make the role worse.

I believe that we need to push SE to evolve the entire role, not just cull OGCDs and call it a day or just add a DoT and call it a day, that may make people who asked for that particular change happy for a short time, but they'll eventually realise it fixes nothing. Healers as a role lost a lot going into ShB, there's not exactly a simple "one size fits all" solution.

[Katish]

Everytime I see someone say that increasing healing requirements only or adding damage buttons only is enough to fix the role, I can't help but wonder if they actually understand the root issues of the healer role. It's not exactly simple to fix after so much decay, but fixing only one aspect without touching on the rest is just as likely to make the role worse.

I believe that we need to push SE to evolve the entire role, not just cull OGCDs and call it a day or just add a DoT and call it a day, that may make people who asked for that particular change happy for a short time, but they'll eventually realise it fixes nothing. Healers as a role lost a lot going into ShB, there's not exactly a simple "one size fits all" solution.

Absolutely, fixing one issue won't solve anything. I remember seeing someone post they balance healer's based on party needs instead of their own which I was reluctant to agree with at first, but I definitely see that as a possible reason as to why the healers are so monotonous. (Afraid to make a change due to party tasking)

But I am unsure if they know that doing so takes away the fulfillment of the job, just so others can be fulfilled.

[Kyrj]

DPS kits. There really isn't anything more they can do with healing. How many instant cast OGCD heals do we need? How many fill a bar to use X spells heals do we need? A dps kit can be ignored by those who don't want to dps as a healer and gives those that do want to dps something to do outside of pressing 2 buttons.

[CommonlyRare]

I have been wanting a support class that isn't a healer since the start. I believe that post ShB there is an opportunity to be able to implement a class like that without having to rebalance the role itself. Introduce a more buff and debuff focused class, keep healing and shielding on the others mostly as is, and please don't increase their dps. I genuinely miss not being able to solo anything as a whm, but I am probably in the minority there. I like that endgame content doesn't require 2 healers anymore, experimentation and personal preference should be able to go hand in hand with optimization and I think we are in a good spot there.

[ty_taurus]

It has never been a healer, and likely never will be. It's never been a caster either. I think they find it easier to animate a melee/tank in a trailer in such a way that gets people more excited than a caster would. Calling it now, next expansion he'll be a MCH (since Thancred is a GNB, he can't double up on that). NIN could be an option too, but dual wield right after Viper? Probably best to give it a gap. It's not like 'healer protagonist in trailer' can't work, Blizzard did a pretty good job of it IMO with Anduin in the BFA trailer. Just have the WOL as an AST, recolour the light dome in that video blue and add some stars to it, job done

I disagree. Casters also feature a weapon that can be revealed, and magic is something that can look extremely cool and flashy. Sage’s reveal with Alphinaud was infinitely more dynamic and interesting than “and now he has two swords.” And Alisaie’s showcase was also very exciting.

It just has more to do with melee favoritism. They like melee, and they only see the WoL as a melee user. Also, they did have the WoL dawn the monk job alongside Lyse who was the focal point of the same expansion. They can easily pair WoL with a main character of an existing job if they want to.

EDIT: Fixed it to say monk. Not sure how that got spellchecked to "kink" but oh well.

[fulminating]

Louisoux has probably looked the most impressive in the cgi scenes, but even he stopped being a caster and ended up punching the dragon in the full coil rendition.

Besides that, paladin and dark knight both are magic users, even if caster stretches it somewhat. It is pretty telling that their magic aspects (lights inside worm, cutting the forgiven whatsit in half) are more being used as a way to hype up a delayed full reveal of the poster boy rather than as a flashy fighting technique.

I don’t think it should be impossible to have a caster or even healer as the poster job, but it would be a struggle to overcome the disadvantages of demographic targeting, typical lack of dynamic combat and fitting the generally heroic aesthetic they’re using for him. DT was a good opportunity to have turtlemancer as the poster job and viper the secondary, to emphasise it being a new start and broadly lower stakes but that’s a bit meta possibly.
I would probably enjoy watching the poster guy cackling and dropping an ungodly pyrotechnics display on something, but I can’t really imagine it being that exciting to watch the character without gratuitous use of between the lines and aetherial manipulation. Healing on the other hand would be possibly a bit gory to have in any exciting capacity, although that wow one where the dude brings the guys back would be a good base, if less impressive given the smaller scale of ff14 raids. Maybe put an alliance raid in the trailer and have healer lb3s hit the other parties as an expansion feature? I don’t think the healer aesthetics play well for this - white mage is kind of out because it always has to look like a white mage, sage is taken, scholar has faeries and skirts which probably would look a bit odd on the poster guy and ast is also taken and doesn’t have particularly dynamic outfits either. Warrior is probably as near as we’re going to get.

[OgruMogru]

It's because healers are the trophy girlfriend role. Milky and passive. You're accessories, not the main focus.

This is sarcasm but it's not because it's the way healers have been largely presented and treated for years. Decades.

[IDontPetLalas]

It's because healers are the trophy girlfriend role. Milky and passive. You're accessories, not the main focus.

This is sarcasm but it's not because it's the way healers have been largely presented and treated for years. Decades.

This made me laugh entirely too much (despite the elements of truth), because of thinking of the first time I heard various healers on VC and how shocked various people were when they turned out to be guys. One of my best friends used to rant at me all the time about how he always had to say "yes, I'm a guy"

[ForsakenRoe]

Besides that, paladin and dark knight both are magic users, even if caster stretches it somewhat. It is pretty telling that their magic aspects (lights inside worm, cutting the forgiven whatsit in half) are more being used as a way to hype up a delayed full reveal of the poster boy rather than as a flashy fighting technique.

Yeh, that's what I'm thinking, when it IS magic related by tangent like PLD, DRK, and to an extent RDM has it too, it's a melee weapon being used as the method by which the magic is being delivered. DRK using Shadowbringer an expansion early, PLD slashing a terminus worm in half with light. Alph and the SGE nouliths breaks the mould very well, but I wonder how much that's because the weapon itself breaks the mould in it's design. That, and/or the 'we have been waiting for a healer for 6 years now, we'll take anything we can get' factor. On which note, I'm still pissed they replace the animation from the trailer (Toxikon 1) with a completely different, and in my opinion worse, one. Make Toxikon 1 and 2 have different coloured lasers in Tox2's animation, and move Tox1's animation over to Phlegma. Delete the big blue ball. Or make a 'Eukrasian Phlegma' that uses the blue ball animation, and is an AOE DOT applicator

Anyway, that's why I think it'll be more physical stuff for now, until they have some new casters (and weapon archetypes) to work with. Though, with the redesign and how much 'spectacle' there is to it, I guess SMN could work. Actually, what's the roles for 8.0, physranged and a tank, right? Then it can be the new tank there, I suppose