Third-party Tools Can Negatively Affect Players Not Using Them

[Frost1800]

With the interest in third-party tools and bots surfacing on the forum, a common sentiment I found is "But how does that affect me?"

Well, it is pretty obvious that it can affect players who engage in PVP or market board PVP, as they are directly competing with bots and add-ons in a losing battle.

However, even for PVE content, third-party tools can affect players who do not use them negatively. I will give some examples from personal experience, as a PS5 player.

I was doing The Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate) (UWU) on Party Finder. There was a mechanic, Titan goals, that required 3 random players to line up quickly. The party finder standard was to have everyone install an add-on that calls out the order of line-up. For a party I was in, there were 2 PlayStation players and one player who claimed: "using third-party tools is against TOS". We were kicked out of the party.

Back when I was doing The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate) (TEA) when my static got to the last phase, "Perfect Alexander", the main mechanic was "Fate Calibration", which was not hard mechanics. Still, it took some practice as it was unique. After 2 wipes, my raid lead pressed everyone to use an add-on to solve the mechanics. Everyone except me decided to use it, I resisted by claiming it was not available on PS5. Luckily, I learned pretty quickly and only had those 2 wipes so that I did not wear others' patience thin.

I went back to PF for Dragonsong's Reprise (Ultimate) (DSR). When I got to the p6, the problem of people lying about their prog points was widespread, and it was common for the party to not see the claimed prog point at all. I tried to find a static, except the recruiters were asking for "prog logs", which I don't have. Then, when I got to the last phase, the lying about prog points became even more problematic, and some parties on PF started asking for "logs". Luckily, some people I have progged with in previous parties were able to provide their logs which have me in them, and I was able to clear.

I took a lot of extra effort to find a static for The Omega Protocol (Ultimate) (TOP) so that I could avoid similar issues. Fortunately, I was able to find one, and we cleared in a timely manner with moderate time investment. However, I would like to stress that it is not guaranteed for a static to prog an Ultimate without getting stuck at some point or to have member(s) unable/unwilling to continue to prog. It would be extra hard if one needs to find new member(s)/static mid-prog.

The above personal experience provides examples of how third-party tools can affect players who do not use them negatively even in PVE content, and how people who do not use them can be pressed into using them due to peer pressure.
When Yoshida wondered why would people use third-party tools during the TOP drama, I would argue that there exists an environment pressuring people to use them now, and it would be up to SE to change this environment.

[Ivtrix]

thank you for saturating the forums with yet another post for people to dribble their drivel for another 18 pages before we all lose interest

[Stormpeaks]

What a new and original thr.......

[LianaThorne]

Prog logs are going to be a thing for any sort of hardcore raiding group/static so ultimately if you want to avoid future issues I would get someone to log you and save the link somewhere for easy access. The people advertising for those groups want proof that you're not going to be deadweight since everyone involved is most likely going to be a high-end raider so they have their own expectations for how quick prog should be.

You can avoid this though by seeking more casual/midcore groups for the content but that obviously also comes with its own set of drawbacks (odds are you'll have a longer prog time, for example). It's ultimately up to whoever is running the group to set their own rules for how they want to filter people so you should figure out which way is most comfortable for you.

Another alternative is to form your own group and make it clear that you want no plugin usage by any of your members when interviewing people or try to form a console-only static to completely nuke out the potential of it occurring.

The blunt truth is that plugin usage isn't going to go away as long as Yoshi turns a blind eye to it outside of World 1st issues occurring, so it would probably be in your best interest to adjust to them existing however you can or avoid groups that use them at all (which you can find out by asking when being interviewed).

[Saraide]

The party finder standard was to have everyone install an add-on that calls out the order of line-up

This is incorrect.

[Absimiliard]

My dude, I can guarantee you installing Cactbot is not the PF standard. SE might come off as blind, deaf, and dumb a lot of the time, but they know more about what goes on than people think. And that? That would get their attention.

[Frost1800]

This is incorrect.

My dude, I can guarantee you installing Cactbot is not the PF standard. SE might come off as blind, deaf, and dumb a lot of the time, but they know more about what goes on than people think. And that? That would get their attention.

It is no longer PF standard right now, but it was when I progged it on my DC. I think there was a transition from what I mentioned to “Allagan Melon”, but that happened after I was done with UwU.

Prog logs are going to be a thing for any sort of hardcore raiding group/static so ultimately if you want to avoid future issues I would get someone to log you and save the link somewhere for easy access. The people advertising for those groups want proof that you're not going to be deadweight since everyone involved is most likely going to be a high-end raider so they have their own expectations for how quick prog should be.

You can avoid this though by seeking more casual/midcore groups for the content but that obviously also comes with its own set of drawbacks (odds are you'll have a longer prog time, for example). It's ultimately up to whoever is running the group to set their own rules for how they want to filter people so you should figure out which way is most comfortable for you.

Another alternative is to form your own group and make it clear that you want no plugin usage by any of your members when interviewing people or try to form a console-only static to completely nuke out the potential of it occurring.

The blunt truth is that plugin usage isn't going to go away as long as Yoshi turns a blind eye to it outside of World 1st issues occurring, so it would probably be in your best interest to adjust to them existing however you can or avoid groups that use them at all (which you can find out by asking when being interviewed).

Regarding having someone else log for me, I found that can be a hard ask in game.
Regarding finding groups that accommodate no add-on usage, I was lucky to be able to find such a group for ToP, and I certainly hope my luck continues. However, I do worry about what if some issue arise during prog, and it can be hard to find people mid-prog.
Thank you for your advice.

[TaleraRistain]

How would SE change it? I mean they can ban people. Those are against ToS. There may be some places they can shore up things on their side a bit. But they don't know what we have installed on our PC and Yoshi-P has said in more than one interview that he doesn't want to go down the path of invasive sniffing programs.

I think it's a crappy situation but I imagine SE is limited on what they can really do without hurting a lot more innocent people.

[Bonoki]

thank you for saturating the forums with yet another post for people to dribble their drivel for another 18 pages before we all lose interest

I hope we keep creating threads about it until SE does something about it.

[Hyperia]

I hope we keep creating threads about it until SE does something about it.

Well, in a way, they are… there just deleting the threads.