A Different Approach to Relics

[fulminating]

A...

I want to cut off their access to getting the long term grind rewards if they’re not going to grind, yes.

I don’t think the lack of a long term goal in endwalker is going to reflect particularly well come even 7.0. If the sheer number of jobs is too daunting, why not take a leaf from literally last expansion and have one time steps or the first relic requiring 8 tokens but subsequent only taking one? Why not have the items drop into inventory at a low% rate in v&c or from island sanctuary venture things to encourage engagement? Or mhach/ivalice/nier alliance raids if they want to encourage people to queue those. Or just alliance/guildhest/etc roulette when queued with the relevant weapon? The relic weapon as a concept is such an easy opportunity to force engagement with content areas that it’s incredible they’re not leveraging it. It’s not as if the complaints about anaemic content only turned up in 6.4, they’ve been there since almost the start of the expansion, albeit quieter.

I think it may be the case that the relic has a high level of engagement, but so does ew summoner. If it’s free there’s no reason not to pick it up, and it’s not even digging into the weekly tome allowance.

Next expansion, each relic will be ~6000 poetics. Come on now.

[Saraide]

Alright, then let's take it up a notch. Why spend tomestones at all? What if someone doesn't have time to grind up the tomestones? Relic weapons should just be given to you. Would that appeal to you more? All you have to do is talk to an NPC and have your job at level 90, but having your job at level 90 also requires a grind... So why don't we remove leveling altogether. When Dawntrail releases, every player will start at level 100, that way all level content becomes completely accessible. No one has to worry about being left out of any job's relic weapon at all.

And while we're at it, why don't we do that for other things players are currently "excluded" from. All titles are automatically unlocked for all players. Want to be the Necromancer but don't have time to do Palace of the Dead? Now, you're no longer locked out. We can fully unlock all minions and mounts as well. Do you want a minion that someone else had to spend $30 for? You should just have it. We don't want you feeling excluded from having that content. Same with all the mogstation items. Honestly, isn't the entire concept of gearing inandof itself exclusionary? When a new patch drops, why don't we get all the new pieces of gear mailed to us, including all the new tomestone gear and raiding gear. When 6.4 dropped, we should've had all 660 gear mailed to us along with the 665 weapon. Think about it. How many people are being excluded from raiding gear because they don't have the time to raid, or maybe just don't want to have to work that hard for something that might be a really cool piece of glamour for them?

You know how long it took me to get the Al-iklil mount from Bozja? How many players would love that mount but don't have the time to grind out the Bozja RNG or the skills to win any of the duels for the field notes? Or what about the Astrope mount? How is that fair that players are expected to do 2000 mentor roulettes if they want to ride on a pretty pegasus?

Oh no people would be expected the play the content they find fun then instead of having the game tell them what to do. What a nightmare!

[Mayhemmer]

Snip.

On paper, I don't really have any objections to this. I even applaud you or not arbitrarily including FATEs in the list, and only just Bicolor Gems. I will never understand the devs' insistence that FATEs from previous expansions be the option for obtaining certain items required for a later expansion's relics. A few of the Shadowbringers relic steps offer the option to do FATEs for said items, but only FATEs from Heavensward and Stormblood.

Meaning, if you choose this option, you'll be doing FATEs you not only have probably already done, that reward less exp for those looking to level as well, and that also neither reward bicolor gemstones NOR contribute to your Shared FATE levels for Shadowbringers. They may have done this in consideration to those who were not already at level 80 and thus could not easily participate in FATEs from higher level zones, but overall it feels like a fumble.

Overall, my belief is that the complexity of the activities offered during a grind matter more than JUST the overall time required to complete said grind. It's why Bozja still shines and is held in high regard. The activities there were varied, and your options to approach them were as well. Rewarding players for participating in whichever content THEY feel most engaged with while adding new avenues is important, and is a mark I feel the Manderville weapons failed to achieve, because they only prompted you to do content you were likely already going to do, and thus added nothing new for players to participate in.

[Krojack]

80%? I don't know where you pulled that # from. I queue for frontline whenever shatter isn't up and my queue of 72 people is always less than 5m. PvP is actually the best it has ever been in XIV since the Endwalker changes.

It's because people like me still queue for daily frontlines roulette even though we hate doing PvP with a passion yet it's the ONLY way to get the series malmstone rewards.

[Hanayumi]

Still think we should bring back the lengthy relic from arr/hw, give it more options to complete each step like resistance weapons did, tie it to no particular content, and make it raid equivalent through out the entire expansion. But with all that keep the 1500 tome weapon, call it something else entirely, and deem it more as catch up gear.

[xbahax92]

They should just put the relics in the cash shop for those that do not want to grind the content.
Win/win for SE, I guess?

[TaleraRistain]

snip

Now you're just being silly. Most of the things you've mentioned have never had a different way to do them. The cat is already out of the bag with relics. We're very unlikely to go back to a completely restricted version. So the idea is compromise. Let people take the path to the relic in a way that will require the amount of effort on their part that they desire. The grind is there. We can do it. But the tomestone option will also be there for those who like the new style. It still gives us something to do, which is the main complaint I've seen about the lack of a relic grind.

[TaleraRistain]

I want to cut off their access to getting the long term grind rewards if they’re not going to grind, yes.

I don’t think the lack of a long term goal in endwalker is going to reflect particularly well come even 7.0. If the sheer number of jobs is too daunting, why not take a leaf from literally last expansion and have one time steps or the first relic requiring 8 tokens but subsequent only taking one? Why not have the items drop into inventory at a low% rate in v&c or from island sanctuary venture things to encourage engagement? Or mhach/ivalice/nier alliance raids if they want to encourage people to queue those. Or just alliance/guildhest/etc roulette when queued with the relevant weapon? The relic weapon as a concept is such an easy opportunity to force engagement with content areas that it’s incredible they’re not leveraging it. It’s not as if the complaints about anaemic content only turned up in 6.4, they’ve been there since almost the start of the expansion, albeit quieter.

I think it may be the case that the relic has a high level of engagement, but so does ew summoner. If it’s free there’s no reason not to pick it up, and it’s not even digging into the weekly tome allowance.

Next expansion, each relic will be ~6000 poetics. Come on now.

They would be grinding. Just not in the same way. They'd grind their tomestones in whatever content they wanted to gain those in.

My personal preference is something more like ARR and HW questlines. I was hoping for that for EW. I even was kind of disappointed with the one time aspect of ShB steps because I'm one of the crazies that enjoys that checklist aspect. I would have done that one time step on all of my relics.

I just don't feel that now that another option has been presented, everyone needs to be forced into that. I've always advocated for choices in relic content, which is why I bristled against the Eureka and Bozja design, not to mention the FOMO aspects of those whereas ARR and HW remain much more accessible expansions later. So I really don't care if someone else gets their relic and their grind is tomestones.

Could even be something like being presented the quest and being told you can go find the items yourself through this specific content, or Rowena's rep conveniently has a supply for large amounts of tomestones each. It's really not that dissimilar than being able to shortcut your next relic after the one time steps.

[ty_taurus]

Now you're just being silly. Most of the things you've mentioned have never had a different way to do them. The cat is already out of the bag with relics. We're very unlikely to go back to a completely restricted version. So the idea is compromise. Let people take the path to the relic in a way that will require the amount of effort on their part that they desire. The grind is there. We can do it. But the tomestone option will also be there for those who like the new style. It still gives us something to do, which is the main complaint I've seen about the lack of a relic grind.

I don’t have time to grind Tomestones, I’m too busy playing other games. How can I get the relic weapon when it’s too much of a grind for me to farm roulettes everyday?

[strawberrycake]

MY alternative is this, Bozja and Zadnor were fine, The Relic step should be released at the beginning of a patch X.0 X.1 X.2, etc, you get my point. Now, You have to do a grind for those who want it, and you ofc get all the other rewards for doing said content, mounts, armor, gil, glam, etc, and then the Alternative tome/crystal tower/ no effort version is implemented always at the x.5 patch. Bam, you fixed the issue will making sure the grind stayed Relevant and people got to be lazy.