A Different Approach to Relics

[Hanayumi]

Still think we should bring back the lengthy relic from arr/hw, give it more options to complete each step like resistance weapons did, tie it to no particular content, and make it raid equivalent through out the entire expansion. But with all that keep the 1500 tome weapon, call it something else entirely, and deem it more as catch up gear.

[xbahax92]

They should just put the relics in the cash shop for those that do not want to grind the content.
Win/win for SE, I guess?

[ReynTime]

They should just put the relics in the cash shop for those that do not want to grind the content.
Win/win for SE, I guess?

Players who want every reward but complain there is time commitment behind them deserve to be whaled through the mogstation agreed.

Anyway I'm completely against the idea of offering players who think relics are too much of a grind an "easier" path. Yoshida's mindset that every content should appeal to everyone is what ruined Endwalker for me. I liked Relics because they gave people like me, who enjoy the time-consuming fixed party grind side of socialization in MMOs a unique reward to go after. I don't think the social part in a game should be limited to spamming dance emotes in a stupid pretend DJ party or asking "MARE????" to other players.
If you don't enjoy doing raids, you shouldn't get raid rewards. If you don't enjoy the relic grind you're not entitled to the relics. I can't stand that janky blunderville crap and I'm not complaining it exists and doesn't appeal to me, or asking to be entitled to the currency and achievement titles.

[ty_taurus]

Now you're just being silly. Most of the things you've mentioned have never had a different way to do them. The cat is already out of the bag with relics. We're very unlikely to go back to a completely restricted version. So the idea is compromise. Let people take the path to the relic in a way that will require the amount of effort on their part that they desire. The grind is there. We can do it. But the tomestone option will also be there for those who like the new style. It still gives us something to do, which is the main complaint I've seen about the lack of a relic grind.

I don’t have time to grind Tomestones, I’m too busy playing other games. How can I get the relic weapon when it’s too much of a grind for me to farm roulettes everyday?

[strawberrycake]

MY alternative is this, Bozja and Zadnor were fine, The Relic step should be released at the beginning of a patch X.0 X.1 X.2, etc, you get my point. Now, You have to do a grind for those who want it, and you ofc get all the other rewards for doing said content, mounts, armor, gil, glam, etc, and then the Alternative tome/crystal tower/ no effort version is implemented always at the x.5 patch. Bam, you fixed the issue will making sure the grind stayed Relevant and people got to be lazy.

[ty_taurus]

I could see that. Rowena's representative has a limited supply while the supply is greater if you go obtain it yourself.

As to why, well, it's obviously popular. They remarked that this relic has the highest participation so far. So I could see where they would want to continue that appeal. An optional grind path serves as something to not leave out those who enjoyed that aspect of relics, while also allowing them to remain accessible and appealing.

Participation is a flawed metric to go by though. Obviously it’s going to have a higher obtaining rate than past relics because you’re a hop, skip, and a jump away from just handing them out for free. If that’s what makes content successful, then the most successful way you can introduce content is to just place the item into every players inventory automatically during maintenance. That way you’ll have a 100% player obtainment rate—a perfect score. If that’s all that matters, then that’s literally the best way relic weapons could ever be handled. Nothing else will lead to a literal 100%.

[strawberrycake]

I still laugh that in 2023 that this many adults have such bad time management and can't dedicate 2-3 hours to a game you pay a 15-20 dollar sub for and probably already spend most of your time on. Theres every excuse in the world to just go vibe with a few friends and grind out a relic, this isn't even about content. I just remember as far back as ARR theres always soemone I see online every day all day seemingly having an issue with just playing the game, yet the people with jobs and kids and who arent on seem to be able to get their relics and in no time flat.

The issue with XIV relic content at least in NA isn't even about the grind, it's about the fact that people are gonna be held to a standard in group based content, it's about the fact that it's not just given to you, it's about the fact that people have to leave their comfort zones and randoms won't tolerate their attitudes. It's that simple.

[strawberrycake]

My issue with the tome solution, isn't that it doesn't work, or that I do not have choice. When you take the tome solution, yes I have the physical choice to do as I please to grind, my issue is the community at large. The community will always dictate what is easiest and only do that when you have the *choice* to gain tomes from anything, conversely, if you make the solution to gaining your relic require the bare minimum, it doesn't matter what you do.

I want the progression to getting my relic to be fun and meaningful content, solo or with the community, I want it to be something memorable. But if we go the tome route, theres no way to keep the community at least on NA, from gravitating to the easiest farmable thing and that being the only way, or the means of me getting my weapon being a braindead non-grind for the sake of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

My personal Solution is creating involved zone or world based content, similar to Zadnor and Bozja and Eureka, and having this Relic Step start at least at the X.1 of each patch, then at the X.X.5 of each patch. they introduce the alternative and it's just 1500 tomes, and requires no work for those who do not want to grind. I feel it's fairest approach and makes it so that gaining the relic later if you were not around for the Zone/instance grind is still easy.

[Shurrikhan]

My issue with the tome solution, isn't that it doesn't work, or that I do not have choice. When you take the tome solution, yes I have the physical choice to do as I please to grind, my issue is the community at large. The community will always dictate what is easiest and only do that when you have the *choice* to gain tomes from anything.

This is true of any and all 'choice', though. If a job is badly underpowered, it becomes a "non-choice". If a job is actually/significantly overpowered, it makes those it competes with "non-choices". The same goes for content and their efficiencies. If a few significantly outstrip the rest, they become the only choices.

But that's not a reason, necessarily, to remove all choice and make everyone do A, B, and C in precise rotation, especially given that such starves queues for those who run ahead or behind without any other options to fall back on. Just as that's not a reason to have only one job per role.

That's just a reason to actually balance the damned choices. Which we should be doing anyways, regardless of whether it's just for Relics or for the broader game.

[strawberrycake]

This is true of any and all 'choice', though. If a job is badly underpowered, it becomes a "non-choice". If a job is actually/significantly overpowered, it makes those it competes with "non-choices". The same goes for content and their efficiencies. If a few significantly outstrip the rest, they become the only choices.

But that's not a reason, necessarily, to remove all choice and make everyone do A, B, and C in precise rotation, especially given that such starves queues for those who run ahead or behind without any other options to fall back on. Just as that's not a reason to have only one job per role.

That's just a reason to actually balance the damned choices. Which we should be doing anyways, regardless of whether it's just for Relics or for the broader game.

I agree with this, this is a more nuanced approach, I just don't trust SE to take this approach. I also feel this is too systematic, it's like I'm opting into a system of the game with no real soul to it. Of the many issues I have with the EW relic grind, Hildabrande is very much one of them, it just isn;t fun for me, and yes this is subjective. But with this system SE will have to make a VERY compelling story to prop up everyone doing savage, ex or whatever else as a means to get our relic, the content still wouldn't feel memorable, it'll feel like another day in XIV because then we'd look at the state of the balance, the state of the games content, and if it was any fun when done for more then it's initial reasons.

And yes one could, just improve it all, but if it were that easy I don't think we'd be here right now.