An idea for coveted "Mid-Core" content

[Volgia]

I think I would like more of a bridge and a better curve to go from casual to midcore to hardcore. So in a sense, casual content is just doing your roulettes, midcore content would just be exploratory zones, harder 4 man dungeons and extreme trials, while hardcore content would be Savage, Ultimates and Criterion Savage dungeons.

[Asari5]

its not even funny anymore how people read words liks casual, mid-core or hard-core and go straight to their own subjectiv definition jumping between the scale of difficulty and the scale of time investment and mixing them up, without even thinking about what the other person is going for.

yeah unfortunately we do use the same/similar words on both scales, but that doesnt mean we cant differentiate between them



and then in terms of difficulty... sure for people doing ultimates the difficulty in extreme trials may seem like dungeon difficulty. and for people only doing msq the difficulty in extrem trials may look like ultimate difficulty.... but no matter where you stand on the scale and no matter how little brain someone has, anyone who thinks for a few seconds about it can come to the conclusion that there are differencies between them because they are differently named or because other people treat them differently.
so how does it seem so difficult to realize the gap between easy and hard?


wouldnt it make sense to have an objectiv scale (depending on the actual difficulties we have) when talking woth other people instead of projecting our own view on other people?

[Absimiliard]

Just bring back exploration zones and Stormblood-style fully scaling sets of relic gear for you to obtain and improve therein. This will appease a fairly large number of people right out of the gate. Throw in some FATEs that behave like EX trials, albeit with a focus on personal responsibility rather than the usual "welp, we're gonna wipe because Steve was a micrometer out of place." Is this at least in part midcore? Maybe, maybe not. It would at least get the ball rolling on more content for casuals and theoretical midcore-players alike.

At this point it's difficult to even nail down what midcore is, since the community just can't seem to agree on it.

[SeverianLyonesse]

While I think difficulty settings is actually a pretty solid idea, isn't that effectively what normal/Extreme and normal/Savage is intended to be for trials? Isn't that what Criterion/Variant Dungeons were supposed to be?

I think you're on the right track, and I think the reason why "mid-core" is even becoming a topic of discussion is that outside of Extreme/Savage there really isn't any mid-core content. Previously, it was Eureka/BA and Bozja/CLL/Dalriada/DR that were the "mid-core" content, particularly the exploratory zones. In theory those could have been replaced with something like what you suggest for dungeons, and in theory they were with Criterions, the problem is that Criterion dungeons failed to deliver on challenging, rewarding, repeatable content--the many player open world maps of Eureka and Bozja just naturally facilitated mid-core ambitions a lot better. You could be as solo/inefficient or group/grindy as you wanted in those zones with a lot of natural variety from NM pops.

Personally, I think the switch from exploratory zones to criterion dungeons was a poor decision. Particularly when you consider the fact that not only is nothing serving the same function, but Criterion dungeons compare quite directly to Deep Dungeon which naturally is a much more developed format. They should have fleshed out Deep Dungeons more and just made Criterion Dungeons normal dungeons, not wasted all that extra dev time on extra pathing and assets and bosses.

At minimum, they should have at least tied the Relic grinds to the Criterion Dungeons. At least that would give them some lasting presence in the game.

[RitsukoSonoda]

While I think difficulty settings is actually a pretty solid idea, isn't that effectively what normal/Extreme and normal/Savage is intended to be for trials? Isn't that what Criterion/Variant Dungeons were supposed to be?

I think you're on the right track, and I think the reason why "mid-core" is even becoming a topic of discussion is that outside of Extreme/Savage there really isn't any mid-core content. Previously, it was Eureka/BA and Bozja/CLL/Dalriada/DR that were the "mid-core" content, particularly the exploratory zones. In theory those could have been replaced with something like what you suggest for dungeons, and in theory they were with Criterions, the problem is that Criterion dungeons failed to deliver on challenging, rewarding, repeatable content--the many player open world maps of Eureka and Bozja just naturally facilitated mid-core ambitions a lot better. You could be as solo/inefficient or group/grindy as you wanted in those zones with a lot of natural variety from NM pops.

Personally, I think the switch from exploratory zones to criterion dungeons was a poor decision. Particularly when you consider the fact that not only is nothing serving the same function, but Criterion dungeons compare quite directly to Deep Dungeon which naturally is a much more developed format. They should have fleshed out Deep Dungeons more and just made Criterion Dungeons normal dungeons, not wasted all that extra dev time on extra pathing and assets and bosses.

At minimum, they should have at least tied the Relic grinds to the Criterion Dungeons. At least that would give them some lasting presence in the game.

To me personally it feels like the Criterion/Variant duties were something bolted on as an afterthought when they realized just how much potential content they cut from the game by not adding a new exploratory zone and tacking the relic on to the Hildibrand side quest line as a low grade tomestone dump.

[Mayhemmer]

Snip.

I agree to most of that. I like the idea of Criterion, but it just... needs something more? If they're going to continue into Dawntrail, I at least would like to see them made more relevant, though preferably not at the cost of something like exploration content.

Deep Dungeons... need to evolve. I like them, but after seeing Orthos adhere so closely to the blueprint they pinned with PoTD even after multiple expansions, I'm concerned for the next one we get. They could add more incentive and more rewards to it, but if it follows the exact same design we've had 3 times now, I'm going to be disappointed, personally.

As for exploratory zones, I'm of course all for getting another one, with the catch that they try to cram as many forms of activities into it as possible. I don't just want Bozja 2. I want Bozja's structure with all the fixings, but let us take gatherers and crafters into it, with a quest line for combat, crafting, and gathering respectively. Add big fates for them like Ishgardian Restoration had. Let us find exploratory treasure maps within the zone and hunt for chests. Hell, why not even Deep Dungeon's randomly generated dungeons as instanced dungeons you can stumble upon and do solo or with a party, within the exploration zone!

They have the structure for it all, and so many ideas to work with. I loved Bozja, and would love even more to see the devs take it and iterate upon it.

[chaotix69]

I just love how this game is following the same path as WoW. Literally due to the player base themselves. You can’t make anyone happy in this game.

[Volgia]

Personally, I think the switch from exploratory zones to criterion dungeons was a poor decision. Particularly when you consider the fact that not only is nothing serving the same function, but Criterion dungeons compare quite directly to Deep Dungeon which naturally is a much more developed format. They should have fleshed out Deep Dungeons more and just made Criterion Dungeons normal dungeons, not wasted all that extra dev time on extra pathing and assets and bosses .

We should have gotten both honestly. I think there's another thread about lost actions in Variant Dungeons, but you could definetly make the criterion dungeons and variant dungeons in a zone like Bozja.