Paladin Skill Count Question

[Rithy255]

I would love it if Shield Bash was reworked. I don't think I've used it successfully since I was a Sprout Gladiator.
The one time I thought I was going to get to use it since was in DRS when tanking the golems and I had to interrupt a cast. I thought Shield Bash would work. I was so ready to find it useful for once. It did not work, only interrupts work on the golem, and I died because of it.

It's a dead skill to me.


I like Intervention in that I can cast [Holy] Sheltron on myself and Intervention on my co-tank during dual tankbusters, or on someone who didn't get proper healing during a Savage fight and might need the mitigation for an upcoming mechanic. If you consolidated these two, you'd need to reduce the cooldown on [Holy] Sheltron to ensure this skill expression is still available.

Could reduce the cooldown to 1 second and add that you cannot apply sheltron to someone already under the effect of your sheltron, as to not let you accidently use it twice on self or target.

Shield bash should replace gap closer doing damage let you also charge to allies as PLD, (make Shield bash do around 150 on two charges) It's already a OGCD that can stun in PVP, you could even make it a cone stun to be useful in dungeons, (with no white mage), I'd even be in favour of making shield bash shorter (or Expiancion) if it means we can remove circle of scorn.

[Espon]

My issue with combining Sheltron and Intervention is that it doesn't not free up a keybind for me since I use Intervention in a macro so I can use it on the other tank without untargeting the boss.

I would like to see Fight or Flight be upgraded to Requiescat, since you always use both together. Requiescat would grant 25% increased damage in additional to what it currently does, and the damage dealt is instead a 5y AoE with 50% damage falloff beyond the first target. Yeah it means paladins gain slightly more AoE damage but it would allow them to still use their damage buff without a target or when out of range.

There's more of a rework coming in 7.0 and the entire rotation might be completely different then, who knows, just got to wait and see. Some stuff may be scrapped entirely or completely different.

That 7.0 rework was moved up to an Endwalker patch because of how many issues paladins were having, particularly in DSR. I'm only expecting tweaks in additional to whatever new skills and traits that are added between level 91 and 100.

[Nicola_Kunu]

My issue with combining Sheltron and Intervention is that it doesn't not free up a keybind for me since I use Intervention in a macro so I can use it on the other tank without untargeting the boss.

I hadn't thought this through properly even though I have the same setup (and a similar Heart of Corundum macro, and Aurora macro, on my GNB). I guess it just removes the skill from the spellbook, which isn't helping the hotbar issue.
It might also make it harder to deal with duo tankbusters as it's an OGCD spell and that split second of the button refreshing itself would make it difficult to dual weave (is it called an internal skill cooldown?), especially if one is a macro.

I would like to see Fight or Flight be upgraded to Requiescat, since you always use both together. Requiescat would grant 25% increased damage in additional to what it currently does, and the damage dealt is instead a 5y AoE with 50% damage falloff beyond the first target. Yeah it means paladins gain slightly more AoE damage but it would allow them to still use their damage buff without a target or when out of range.

This would make Paladin one of the few classes that triggers their burst window main damage increase ability with a damage dealing ability. Mug + Trick Attack from Ninja are in a similar vein. There might be more that I've forgotten/don't know about.

Whilst there's never a situation where I've wanted to hold Requiescat after FoF, would players want to ensure they trigger it as one of the last players entering burst to have the damage dealing component benefit from other players' buffs?
Honestly, might maintain the whole "Spreadsheet tank" meme, but I don't know whether Ninjas consider ensuring the damage component Trick Attack + Mug are under raid buffs or not.

[Rithy255]

My issue with combining Sheltron and Intervention is that it doesn't not free up a keybind for me since I use Intervention in a macro so I can use it on the other tank without untargeting the boss.

I would like to see Fight or Flight be upgraded to Requiescat, since you always use both together. Requiescat would grant 25% increased damage in additional to what it currently does, and the damage dealt is instead a 5y AoE with 50% damage falloff beyond the first target. Yeah it means paladins gain slightly more AoE damage but it would allow them to still use their damage buff without a target or when out of range.



That 7.0 rework was moved up to an Endwalker patch because of how many issues paladins were having, particularly in DSR. I'm only expecting tweaks in additional to whatever new skills and traits that are added between level 91 and 100.

Your issue doesn't take into account that most people just don't use that macro, I think changing both would be a net neutral to you and a net positive to most, so changing sheltron/intervention into being merged just makes space for the majority of people and makes sense.

Sheltron Shouldn't only just be the changed though, as theirs a lot of things that should be changed/merged to make space for new expansion abilities.

[Renathras]

Hey all. I've been playing a bit of Paladin lately and I noticed that I have 3 full bars of skills, minus one slot because I moved Sprint off. It looks like we get two new skills per expansion. Do we know if there are any plans to rework or consolidate some of the skills because it feels a bit ridiculous if I'll need to add a 4th bar? I can only imagine what my bars will look like in 4 or 6 years.

There are a lot.

You can shoehorn macros in to consolidate some, but it can be rather hit or miss. Like just this evening, I've made a Shield Bash/Shield Lob macro that...is kinda neat.

/merror off
/ac "Shield Bash"
/ac "Shield Lob"
/micon "Shield Lob"

...if you're in melee, Shield Bash hits, GCD starts, Shield Lob does nothing since GCD is rolling and it can't go off. If you're NOT in melee range, Shield Bash gives you a "not in range" error and then it goes to the next line and throws Shield Lob. While there is the general issue with macros not quing, both Shield Bash AND Shield Lob are skills you don't typically use. Most times you'd use Shield Lob you'd use Holy Spirit instead, and you never use Shield Bash unless you're in a Deep Dungeon or something and in melee range of whatever you're attacking. Since both are rarely used and deliberate, you're already thinking about them in those rare times you do use them, but they're not staples such that quing should be an issue often or at all.

Also tinkering with one that combines Fight or Flight and Requiescat, which are oGCDs so quing isn't AS much an issue (as long as you don't press it during the animation lock of whatever you do just before it), and with the FoF icon since it's easy to visibly see if you've pressed it (activating FoF will make the icon go on CD, and activating Requiescat will make the Confetior icon light up, so that's good visual feedback), but it can still feel risky. Granted, you CAN just do your burst as X, FoF, Goring, Req, Conf, Circle, Swords1, Expac, Swords2, Intervene, Swords3, Intervene, Holy Spirit/Royal Authority/Atonement x3. So you can do little pauses to make that (and even a Circle/Expiacion macro work...but that one I had more issues with since it's not always apparent if they go off and I'm more prone to trying to "power weave" those where that animation lock prevents the macro going off...), and also tinkering with a Bulwark/Rampart one, which...works well enough, but despite them providing a similar GENERAL level of protection and being MOSTLY interchangeable... I dunno, feels off somehow, even if it does seem to work pretty well in my initial testing.

Overall, PLD's just got so many skills. It has the most of any single Job in the game. There are easily some that can be combined, but it still has a lot. Even with my combinations from macros I end up with something like 3-4 more hotbar skills I need to slot than any other Job and I have to decide what I can generally "live without" in various content and feel like I have to swap things around to keep it down to two crossbar sets. More than that (32 total slots) and things start getting messy to juggle to me.

But yeah, there are a few places like that that either we (through macros) or the Devs (through programming) can do. And, indeed, I suspect will HAVE to do at some point. I fully expect FoF and Requiescat to be combined at some point, be that 7.0 or 8.0, and some other abilities to either be reworked, combined, or pruned, for example, Royal Authority becoming Atonement if you have any stacks of Sword Oath available (there's no time you'd want to use Royal before consuming all stacks since they do the same amount of damage and Royal just refreshes the stack count)...which might be another macro idea, come to think of it...though those are such HIGH use buttons that macros removing quing starts to become significantly more noticeable than it does for Shield Bash/Lob...

[rawker]

Remember Shield Swipe? Why not make a comeback? Only change I can think off to make this viable is to give it the stack treatment. It will only gain stacks with each successful blocks, max of 3. I don't care if it still does 100 potency, Free oGCD, is free oGCD and will give PLD a somewhat dps feel when it comes to pressing buttons.

Also, I have this hunch that PLD level 100 will give Atonement with Confiteor treatment. Think about it, Req has stacks, previously used up by Holy Spirit, then Confiteor. It is logical and natural for Sword Oath stacks to be used up by the upgraded version of Atonement.1

Shield Bash can be removed or relegated as a PvP only ability then move Intervene (gap closer) at an earlier level.... hoping it replaces Shield Bash.

As for pruning... Why not change FoF and Req affect one button.. if FoF is active, the GCD button becomes Goring Blade, but when in Req, the button becomes Confiteor. This will also have to accomodate such change and adjust potencies on all PLD spells.

[Jade_Tyrant]

It might also make it harder to deal with duo tankbusters as it's an OGCD spell and that split second of the button refreshing itself would make it difficult to dual weave

This is the reason I personally don't want them merged. Being able to throw out both skills in the same weave window is very nice, since they have a 4 second duration on part of their mitigation and dual tank busters are usually hitting both tanks at the exact same time. The small delay on re-using the skill would make that much more difficult (if it'd even be possible to do without clipping). If it ends up happening regardless, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd rather see other skills get changed/merged before merging those two.

Why not change FoF and Req affect one button.. if FoF is active, the GCD button becomes Goring Blade, but when in Req, the button becomes Confiteor. This will also have to accomodate such change and adjust potencies on all PLD spells.

Paladin uses both Fight or Flight and Requiescat at the same time, so how would that work? They'd have to either make one have higher priority than the other which seems incredibly messy, or rework Paladin again to re-separate Fight or Flight and Requiescat such that they're never active at the same time. Given that they just changed Paladin to remove the offset between the two, the latter option seems very unlikely.

[Rithy255]

This is the reason I personally don't want them merged. Being able to throw out both skills in the same weave window is very nice, since they have a 4 second duration on part of their mitigation and dual tank busters are usually hitting both tanks at the exact same time. The small delay on re-using the skill would make that much more difficult (if it'd even be possible to do without clipping). If it ends up happening regardless, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd rather see other skills get changed/merged before merging those two.

another reason why I want intervention changed is because Intervention is just a annoying skill the rampart/sentinel giving 10% or the value is just worse makes no sense, The animation looks awful for intervention too, so getting a better one (aka holy sheltron) would be much wanted lol.

I think you can merge both skills relatively easily with 1. making the CD 1s, 2. making it so you cannot apply sheltron under your own Sheltrons effect (aka prevents you from accidently using it twice on self).

I think PLD should get many skills merged though Sheltron/intervention is a example, I think abilities such as holy spirit and circle can also be merged. I think in general Paladin needs a second rework coming into 7.0 because what can they really add to the job? Not a lot in my eyes, it needs a decent sized rework to even really fit the game, but as it's a non-dps job I wouldn't expect a rework, most likely they're just going to remove shield bash and cover and that's the way of reducing "bloat" (fyi I think cover needs to be buffed, out of gauge, shield bash should actually be a ogcd like pvp, but I doubt... I like PLD's actually using their shield though).

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

except the consolidation doesn't really work since most players will have their shared mitigation on macros for ease of targeting so realistically consolidating Holy Sheltron and Intervention doesn't actually create anymore space on the hotbar, it would essentially be change for the sake of change. Sure there will be a handful of player that do not use targeting macros, or aware of targeting macros, but for the people that will use the actions correctly, most will be using targeting macros, so serves no purpose in doing this consolidation.

while I have seen you recommend merge Holy Spirit and Holy Circle I generally do not like the suggestion mostly because it is awkward, either you then always require a target for AoE with Holy Circle, or you lose the range from Holy Spirit, and honestly losing either would be awful, because the size of large hitboxes and wonky collisions in this game, can mean targeted AoEs do not hit all mobs, but equally having the ranged aspect removed, restricts some of the creative uses of storing Diving Might Stacks for certain disengagements. This would also be akin to saying merge Bloodspiller with Quietus, Edge of Shadow with Flood of Shadow, or merge Burst Strike with Fate Circle, or merge Fell Cleave with Decimate really. Personally I still prefer having separate buttons for each action.

[Jade_Tyrant]

another reason why I want intervention changed is because Intervention is just a annoying skill the rampart/sentinel giving 10% or the value is just worse makes no sense, The animation looks awful for intervention too, so getting a better one (aka holy sheltron) would be much wanted lol.

I think you can merge both skills relatively easily with 1. making the CD 1s, 2. making it so you cannot apply sheltron under your own Sheltrons effect (aka prevents you from accidently using it twice on self).

If they want to change the numbers of Intervention to match Holy Sheltron then sure, I don't really care much one way or another on that.

1 second cooldown is what would make it difficult-to-unable to be used twice in a single weave window, which was the major thing I was saying I would dislike about the change. If the second point actually worked and the cooldown was shaved down far enough/didn't exist, then maybe it could work and still be usable on two targets in a single weave window like it currently is - but I'll admit I don't have high hopes that would work, especially since there's enough other skills where people talk about delays in application being an issue. So the 1s cooldown would be necessary to ensure the game recognizes Sheltron is on someone before you can even attempt to recast it... at which point we're right back to "this doesn't allow for it to be double weaved in a single window."