Paladin Skill Count Question

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

One can use literally any Weaponskill after Requiescat if it feels "janky" and one should always have a Divine Might ready before activating Requiescat anyway. If one has no option at all but to use Confiteor immediately after Requiescat, there's a different conversation to be had than "making Requiescat and Confiteor one button will feel janky".

Making Requiescat and Confiteor one button is a simple and sensible change.

Not always, as going into the 5th burst you will have to use DM HS with a RA prepped before Fight or Flight into Requiescat, otherwise you will have to hold your GCD, so no, not always.

Still I personally fail to see how this will be a beneficial consolidation overall, just the fact it can come with some jankiness involved. Personally, I'm more of a, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, kind of person. The change would annoy me too as it would mess with both my muscle memory and the way I organise my hotbars.

There is plenty of ways to optimise hotbar layouts with the current amount of actions, both controller or keyboard and mouse. I find seeing hotbars more full than empty to be more satisfying also.

There's more of a rework coming in 7.0 and the entire rotation might be completely different then, who knows, just got to wait and see. Some stuff may be scrapped entirely or completely different.

[Rithy255]

Not always, as going into the 5th burst you will have to use DM HS with a RA prepped before Fight or Flight into Requiescat, otherwise you will have to hold your GCD, so no, not always.

Still I personally fail to see how this will be a beneficial consolidation overall, just the fact it can come with some jankiness involved. Personally, I'm more of a, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, kind of person. The change would annoy me too as it would mess with both my muscle memory and the way I organise my hotbars.

There is plenty of ways to optimise hotbar layouts with the current amount of actions, both controller or keyboard and mouse. I find seeing hotbars more full than empty to be more satisfying also.

There's more of a rework coming in 7.0 and the entire rotation might be completely different then, who knows, just got to wait and see. Some stuff may be scrapped entirely or completely different.

Do you know if it was actually confirmed that theirs a rework in 7.0 btw? Like current PLD certainly feels "half finished" to me, but I don't know if I remember them saying this.

I think paladin would certainly benefit a lot from cutting down some abilities as it will lead to them being able to add more stuff to it In DT (Instead of just upgrades), But at the same time I don't really want anything *removed* the solution seems to merge/condense certain abilities Imo.

[Absurdity]

Do you know if it was actually confirmed that theirs a rework in 7.0 btw? Like current PLD certainly feels "half finished" to me, but I don't know if I remember them saying this.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for this to be another 5.4 monk situation. Paladin is only a tank and not the actual XIV protagonist, a dps.

[Rithy255]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for this to be another 5.4 monk situation. Paladin is only a tank and not the actual XIV protagonist, a dps.

yeah i forget that anything that isn't a DPS is a second thought, if not your a astro begging not to be reworked.

I think they'll likely at least address the "bloat" issue, but I am not getting my hopes up for anything to do with rotation anyway sadly.

[Espon]

My issue with combining Sheltron and Intervention is that it doesn't not free up a keybind for me since I use Intervention in a macro so I can use it on the other tank without untargeting the boss.

I would like to see Fight or Flight be upgraded to Requiescat, since you always use both together. Requiescat would grant 25% increased damage in additional to what it currently does, and the damage dealt is instead a 5y AoE with 50% damage falloff beyond the first target. Yeah it means paladins gain slightly more AoE damage but it would allow them to still use their damage buff without a target or when out of range.

There's more of a rework coming in 7.0 and the entire rotation might be completely different then, who knows, just got to wait and see. Some stuff may be scrapped entirely or completely different.

That 7.0 rework was moved up to an Endwalker patch because of how many issues paladins were having, particularly in DSR. I'm only expecting tweaks in additional to whatever new skills and traits that are added between level 91 and 100.

[Nicola_Kunu]

My issue with combining Sheltron and Intervention is that it doesn't not free up a keybind for me since I use Intervention in a macro so I can use it on the other tank without untargeting the boss.

I hadn't thought this through properly even though I have the same setup (and a similar Heart of Corundum macro, and Aurora macro, on my GNB). I guess it just removes the skill from the spellbook, which isn't helping the hotbar issue.
It might also make it harder to deal with duo tankbusters as it's an OGCD spell and that split second of the button refreshing itself would make it difficult to dual weave (is it called an internal skill cooldown?), especially if one is a macro.

I would like to see Fight or Flight be upgraded to Requiescat, since you always use both together. Requiescat would grant 25% increased damage in additional to what it currently does, and the damage dealt is instead a 5y AoE with 50% damage falloff beyond the first target. Yeah it means paladins gain slightly more AoE damage but it would allow them to still use their damage buff without a target or when out of range.

This would make Paladin one of the few classes that triggers their burst window main damage increase ability with a damage dealing ability. Mug + Trick Attack from Ninja are in a similar vein. There might be more that I've forgotten/don't know about.

Whilst there's never a situation where I've wanted to hold Requiescat after FoF, would players want to ensure they trigger it as one of the last players entering burst to have the damage dealing component benefit from other players' buffs?
Honestly, might maintain the whole "Spreadsheet tank" meme, but I don't know whether Ninjas consider ensuring the damage component Trick Attack + Mug are under raid buffs or not.

[Jade_Tyrant]

It might also make it harder to deal with duo tankbusters as it's an OGCD spell and that split second of the button refreshing itself would make it difficult to dual weave

This is the reason I personally don't want them merged. Being able to throw out both skills in the same weave window is very nice, since they have a 4 second duration on part of their mitigation and dual tank busters are usually hitting both tanks at the exact same time. The small delay on re-using the skill would make that much more difficult (if it'd even be possible to do without clipping). If it ends up happening regardless, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd rather see other skills get changed/merged before merging those two.

Why not change FoF and Req affect one button.. if FoF is active, the GCD button becomes Goring Blade, but when in Req, the button becomes Confiteor. This will also have to accomodate such change and adjust potencies on all PLD spells.

Paladin uses both Fight or Flight and Requiescat at the same time, so how would that work? They'd have to either make one have higher priority than the other which seems incredibly messy, or rework Paladin again to re-separate Fight or Flight and Requiescat such that they're never active at the same time. Given that they just changed Paladin to remove the offset between the two, the latter option seems very unlikely.

[Rithy255]

This is the reason I personally don't want them merged. Being able to throw out both skills in the same weave window is very nice, since they have a 4 second duration on part of their mitigation and dual tank busters are usually hitting both tanks at the exact same time. The small delay on re-using the skill would make that much more difficult (if it'd even be possible to do without clipping). If it ends up happening regardless, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd rather see other skills get changed/merged before merging those two.

another reason why I want intervention changed is because Intervention is just a annoying skill the rampart/sentinel giving 10% or the value is just worse makes no sense, The animation looks awful for intervention too, so getting a better one (aka holy sheltron) would be much wanted lol.

I think you can merge both skills relatively easily with 1. making the CD 1s, 2. making it so you cannot apply sheltron under your own Sheltrons effect (aka prevents you from accidently using it twice on self).

I think PLD should get many skills merged though Sheltron/intervention is a example, I think abilities such as holy spirit and circle can also be merged. I think in general Paladin needs a second rework coming into 7.0 because what can they really add to the job? Not a lot in my eyes, it needs a decent sized rework to even really fit the game, but as it's a non-dps job I wouldn't expect a rework, most likely they're just going to remove shield bash and cover and that's the way of reducing "bloat" (fyi I think cover needs to be buffed, out of gauge, shield bash should actually be a ogcd like pvp, but I doubt... I like PLD's actually using their shield though).

[Nicola_Kunu]

another reason why I want intervention changed is because Intervention is just a annoying skill the rampart/sentinel giving 10% or the value is just worse makes no sense, The animation looks awful for intervention too, so getting a better one (aka holy sheltron) would be much wanted lol.

I actually quite like the animation - I use it for GPose clear screenshots very often as well.

This is the reason I personally don't want them merged. Being able to throw out both skills in the same weave window is very nice, since they have a 4 second duration on part of their mitigation and dual tank busters are usually hitting both tanks at the exact same time. The small delay on re-using the skill would make that much more difficult (if it'd even be possible to do without clipping). If it ends up happening regardless, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd rather see other skills get changed/merged before merging those two.

Oh absolutely, the tight timing would make condensing these two more clunky for the player, especially as my Intervention is macro'd which already has enhanced risks of clipping with the GCD. The spell having an internal cooldown on top of this, combined with the short 4-second window available, would make weaving them in the same window more prone to clipping - and I would consider each clip a fault of game design as opposed to player expression/skill here.

[Rithy255]

I actually quite like the animation - I use it for GPose clear screenshots very often as well.

Holy Sheltron looks way better to me, I feel like intervention is one of the most underwhealming defensive abilities visually, when you compare it to something like TBN.
I feel like It would look better if it looked like the Paladin channelled the Holy Sheltron on a target instead, but if you like the current fair enough