Paladin Skill Count Question

[Bradwr]

Hey all. I've been playing a bit of Paladin lately and I noticed that I have 3 full bars of skills, minus one slot because I moved Sprint off. It looks like we get two new skills per expansion. Do we know if there are any plans to rework or consolidate some of the skills because it feels a bit ridiculous if I'll need to add a 4th bar? I can only imagine what my bars will look like in 4 or 6 years.

[Canadane]

They have generally removed old skills, but sometimes they don’t!
PLD is the only one I use a fourth hotbar for lol

Skill bloat is a problem but one does wonder how much more of the levelling experience they can gut out. They’ve taken so much already.
So many classes go a long time without learning anything.

[Rongway]

Paladin's button problems are easily fixable with a few button consolidations:

• Remove Confiteor button. After activating Requiescat, change it to Confiteor.
• Remove Atonement button. While under the effect of Sword Oath, change Royal Authority to Atonement.
• Remove Intervention ability altogether--it's just a targeted Sheltron with a reduced effect. Make Sheltron targetable and give it a reduced effect when used on someone other than Self. Incidentally this will remove the naming conflict between Intervention and Intervene. Warrior's Bloodwhetting and Nascent Flash would benefit from similar consolidation, as Nascent Flash is just a targeted Bloodwhetting with an additional life link.

[Rithy255]

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I don't know why we need intervention being worse then normal holy sheltron anyway unless you use rampart/sentinel, other tanks get the same effect (if not with benefits for gnb/war) Sheltron should just be targetable (animation looks cooler), they could possibly make it so if you're under the sheltron effect it cannot be applied again until the ability has faded so that you don't accidently waste two uses on self or target and you can have a 1 second CD (as its tied to gauge anyway)

Atonement should be a separate button I'm pretty sure theirs some niche situations where you'd want to reset your atonements even when you still have stacks., I'd kind of like Atonement and goring blade to do literally anything else (even could be reworked into a alternative combo or something but off topic anyway)

I think Confiteor being merged with req is fine, usually I use goring blade right after i got my FOF/REQ even if you accidently press Confiteor early you can adjust pretty easily.

Additional Stuff that barely effects Paladin:
Shield Bash, Personally I rather the ability be reworked, but in its current form it serves no purpose (yeah yeah ok maybe like in a rare deep dungeon instance or something lol?)
Holy spirit/Holy circle, Could merge both so holy spirit becomes a cleave AOE that does 50% less on other enemies, I mean you can already fire blades at a range now so i see no issue with making it a ranged cleave attack
Fight or flight Its current design is just to only ever synch with req you could even let req boost you by 25% still, Its one more ogcd so i can see why you dont need to remove it but just another kind of ability that could go for any other skill, personally I'd kind of like PLD getting FOF (for 30 seconds, YEAH pretty much warrior but meh) off the goring blade combo, as one thing i liked about old PLD was having more then one main combo finisher.
Circle of scorn? I get this is a ogcd weave ability personally, I'd remove this but you get spirits within (upgrade also) like every 15 seconds (wild, personally I prefer more ogcds mid rotation anyway) but yeah this is removing a ability just not one I really care about honestly.


Theirs tons of bloat on PLD, I don't even mean cover or clemency (both are niche but fine, while I'd prefer them to be more useful they shouldn't be removed), It's very easily fixable, I can see why people may disagree with FOF (or even removing shield bash) so theirs just a big list of things that can be changed without effecting Paladin too much

I really hope they clean up space on Paladin so theirs no excuses on why PLD can't get more fun damage buttons or even more defensive/utility skills in the future.

[Rongway]

Atonement should be a separate button I'm pretty sure theirs some niche situations where you'd want to reset your atonements even when you still have stacks

This isn't a thing anymore as of the introduction of Divine Might. Of course you should aim for two Holy Spirits in Fight or Flight when it's possible, but you shouldn't drop any Atonements to force it.

[Rithy255]

This isn't a thing anymore as of the introduction of Divine Might. Of course you should aim for two Holy Spirits in Fight or Flight when it's possible, but you shouldn't drop any Atonements to force it.

TBF I dont really look into the paladin optimization stuff, I just press lighty light up buttons and try to get two holy spirits and atonements in one combo. (I just follow standard rotations loosely lol, seems to be effective enough), I just heard with new paladin you can reset atonements ect, that could be wrong though.

If it wouldn't mess up anything on PLD id be in favour of it, personally I want more gcd combos on paladin though so I'd aim to free up a lot more on current PLD myself.

[Mikey_R]

TBF I dont really look into the paladin optimization stuff, I just press lighty light up buttons and try to get two holy spirits and atonements in one combo. (I just follow standard rotations loosely lol, seems to be effective enough), I just heard with new paladin you can reset atonements ect, that could be wrong though.

When the rework first happened, you could go after the 2 DMHS whilst overriding any Atonements you might have stocked, however, since they have changed it so that Atonememts no longer breaks combos, you no longer need to worry about it.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I have to disagree with merging Requiescat and Confiteor. oGCD into a GCD action is clunky af. We already have Bunshin in Phantom Kamaitachi on ninja, and it feels awful in the opener, so rather pass tbh. Might sound good on paper for the idea, but execution will be awful, especially since you often Fight or Flight into Requiscat, you will clip a GCD with this merge.

If I recall, they did mention there would be more reworked on Paladin in 7.0, but honestly they can drop Shield Bash and Cover at the very least, none of the other tanks have access to them, so skills aren't exactly in the necessity category as far as actions go, they are super niche use skills anyways.

[Rongway]

I have to disagree with merging Requiescat and Confiteor. oGCD into a GCD action is clunky af. We already have Bunshin in Phantom Kamaitachi on ninja, and it feels awful in the opener, so rather pass tbh. Might sound good on paper for the idea, but execution will be awful, especially since you often Fight or Flight into Requiscat, you will clip a GCD with this merge.

This only feels bad on NIN because of its 2.2s GCD which drops to 2.1s with gear. It wouldn't be a problem on a 2.5s GCD job.

[Rithy255]

I have to disagree with merging Requiescat and Confiteor. oGCD into a GCD action is clunky af. We already have Bunshin in Phantom Kamaitachi on ninja, and it feels awful in the opener, so rather pass tbh. Might sound good on paper for the idea, but execution will be awful, especially since you often Fight or Flight into Requiscat, you will clip a GCD with this merge.

If I recall, they did mention there would be more reworked on Paladin in 7.0, but honestly they can drop Shield Bash and Cover at the very least, none of the other tanks have access to them, so skills aren't exactly in the necessity category as far as actions go, they are super niche use skills anyways.

I don't think we should just drop cover personally, I know cover has it's issues but a lot of that can be changed and made better (even if it stays a bit niche)
Shield Bash? if its kept in its current state I rather it be outright removed but I Think it should replace intervene doing ogcd damage (can also do a cone stun for aoe), while your gap closer can become a Non damaging one that you can also charge to allies.

I think honestly you can rework/change a lot of PLD without removing the "niche" abilities of PLD, Personally I just want cover, shield bash and clemency to have more uses and adjustments to how they work.

I'd only want them to start "removing" or merging abilities (such as holy spirit becoming a cleave and holy sheltron/intervention merged) if they want to start making more abilities for PLD (I personally really want two combo finishers at least back personally.