"The Discourse is Dumb and Endwalker is FINE" - Wesk Alber

[Nebelheim]

Said players also aren't participating in the content being mentioned, so that's not really an applicable point here. And even then, the difficulty of less intensive content, i.e. Alliance Raids, is notably lower in Endwalker than in prior expansions. Three expansions later, your average duty finder group isn't skipping Diabolos' Hollow Omen, or avoiding having to soak the phase two meteors, and his hollow camisado still slaps unwary tanks like a truck. Meanwhile, your average duty finder group can very likely skip major mechanics in the latest raid series due to how under-tuned boss health.

I agree everything has been so undertuned since shadowbringers it takes no skill that you could be asleep and still clear content. There is nothing remotely difficult in modern ff14. The skill floor/ceiling can't get any lower then it already is unless the devs make things auto winnable. If people fail a level 90 dungeon with how easy they are I have other things to question about them other then skill issues. All jobs have become homogenized snoozefest to play with how easy they are despite all the complaints and people wanting job identity back.

[ChrysOCE]

Said players also aren't participating in the content being mentioned, so that's not really an applicable point here. And even then, the difficulty of less intensive content, i.e. Alliance Raids, is notably lower in Endwalker than in prior expansions. Three expansions later, your average duty finder group isn't skipping Diabolos' Hollow Omen, or avoiding having to soak the phase two meteors, and his hollow camisado still slaps unwary tanks like a truck. Meanwhile, your average duty finder group can very likely skip major mechanics in the latest raid series due to how under-tuned boss health.

It is awesome how, in Aglaia, you just skip Tipped Scales. The signature mechanic in the last boss fight. That also has a music roll called In The Balance. What a great experience that is, for people who weren't able to do the raid on release. I can't wait for the next time we have a mogtomes event, that includes these raids again, like how some of us get excited to do Mhach, Ivalice or Nier synced. So good.

But, at least they fixed The Final Day, so... job done?

[Sebazy]

IMO Heavensward was akin to Final Fantasy III/VI whilst Endwalker is akin to Octopath Traveller.

Octopath is objectively the superior game. It's visually leagues ahead, it's better tuned, it's better paced, it has far deeper job kits, it has a whopping amount of side content, it offers the player more freedom right from the title screen.

But yet it it'll never be held in anything like the same regard as FF3/6. It feels comparatively soulless, it's predictable, the story is boring and at times it feels like it's been designed by a spreadsheet algorithm, it's just too formulaic. All the stories follow the same flow, all the paths are a similar length and the freedom of choice quickly evaporates unless you want to get your grinding hat on to overcome the missing exp you need to 'skip' a story.

I imported a copy of FF3 from NA via an importer in Tooting market, it cost me nearly £100 back then and it was worth every single penny. I remember the cool Moogle poster, I remember the wild story and gameplay twists, I remember grinding in the Dinosaur woods to build a Celes with Genji Glove, Offering, Drainer and Atma Sword that could solo pretty much anything. I remember loading out my Terra with the Gem Box and Economiser so that she was similarly devastating.

As for Octopath? I remember switching the trader girl to dancer to feed BP to the mage guy who's name I also can't remember and that's about it. *Edit* oh and the collectors edition stage box was cool. Didn't stop me selling it though.

Likewise, I'll carry memories of HW to my grave. By comparison, EW is utterly forgettable and might as well have been patch 5.6 IMHO.

[Turtledeluxe]

IMO Heavensward was akin to Final Fantasy III/VI whilst Endwalker is akin to Octopath Traveller.

Octopath is objectively the superior game. It's visually leagues ahead, it's better tuned, it's better paced, it has far deeper job kits, it has a whopping amount of side content, it offers the player more freedom right from the title screen.

But yet it it'll never be held in anything like the same regard as FF3/6. It feels comparatively soulless, it's predictable, the story is boring and at times it feels like it's been designed by a spreadsheet algorithm, it's just too formulaic. All the stories follow the same flow, all the paths are a similar length and the freedom of choice quickly evaporates unless you want to get your grinding hat on to overcome the missing exp you need to 'skip' a story.

I imported a copy of FF3 from NA via an importer in Tooting market, it cost me nearly £100 back then and it was worth every single penny. I remember the cool Moogle poster, I remember the wild story and gameplay twists, I remember grinding in the Dinosaur woods to build a Celes with Genji Glove, Offering, Drainer and Atma Sword that could solo pretty much anything. I remember loading out my Terra with the Gem Box and Economiser so that she was similarly devastating.

As for Octopath? I remember switching the trader girl to dancer to feed BP to the mage guy who's name I also can't remember and that's about it. *Edit* oh and the collectors edition stage box was cool. Didn't stop me selling it though.

Likewise, I'll carry memories of HW to my grave. By comparison, EW is utterly forgettable and might as well have been patch 5.6 IMHO.

Meanwhile Fornite broke its own record with a whopping 44m concurrent players by going back to its original map. Bungie is imploding because management will not go back on its ever growing monetization policies that players hate and continue vaulting content. Elden Ring and BG3 earn critical accolades for game design by taking risks and innovating on existing formulas.

Meanwhile XIV and MMOs in general opt to stagnate bc...well I'm not even sure why. The latest SE Financials indicate the MMO segment has continued to decline. Players are so used to seeing sprouts and so used to.expansions knocking it out of the park I am unsure if they will even see it coming when Yoshi P' reckless addiction to raider feedback has sufficiently destroyed jobs and combat for the rest of the player base. People seem very confident 7.0 will reverse trends but I wonder if we will see a hard and fast drop off as with EW and XIV will become a game that is only hype for MSQ and then a wasteland of second lifers. 7.0 needs something that will keep people in through the patch cycle.

Also regarding story I'm very not optimistic. The devs can hint a twist all they want but the unrelatable nature of their beast characters is undeniable with the wooden dialogue and dostracting voice acting. While there are some exceptions to this in media (obviously) and even XIV (Dragons weren't so bad) i am very concerned DawnTrail will be missing a "human" element that will leave players wanting for more.

[Palladiamors]

IMO Heavensward was akin to Final Fantasy III/VI whilst Endwalker is akin to Octopath Traveller.

Octopath is objectively the superior game. It's visually leagues ahead, it's better tuned, it's better paced, it has far deeper job kits, it has a whopping amount of side content, it offers the player more freedom right from the title screen.

But yet it it'll never be held in anything like the same regard as FF3/6. It feels comparatively soulless, it's predictable, the story is boring and at times it feels like it's been designed by a spreadsheet algorithm, it's just too formulaic. All the stories follow the same flow, all the paths are a similar length and the freedom of choice quickly evaporates unless you want to get your grinding hat on to overcome the missing exp you need to 'skip' a story.

I imported a copy of FF3 from NA via an importer in Tooting market, it cost me nearly £100 back then and it was worth every single penny. I remember the cool Moogle poster, I remember the wild story and gameplay twists, I remember grinding in the Dinosaur woods to build a Celes with Genji Glove, Offering, Drainer and Atma Sword that could solo pretty much anything. I remember loading out my Terra with the Gem Box and Economiser so that she was similarly devastating.

As for Octopath? I remember switching the trader girl to dancer to feed BP to the mage guy who's name I also can't remember and that's about it. *Edit* oh and the collectors edition stage box was cool. Didn't stop me selling it though.

Likewise, I'll carry memories of HW to my grave. By comparison, EW is utterly forgettable and might as well have been patch 5.6 IMHO.

Eyyy, I got my copy of Final Fantasy III from a mail in order to Tecmo out of a magazine! Cost me fifty bucks which was about three weeks of mowing yards but it was absolutely worth it. Encountering the brachiosaur and having him end you because you didn't wipe him fast enough sucked.

You've pinpointed my issue with all of Squenix 2D attempts, they just feel soullessness. It feels like they are designed for me but in a checklist kind of way and not an organic one.

The poor writing, resolution, and the removal of summoner ruined Endwalker and XIV overall for me. Now I'm just marking time, resubbing here and there and watching the press releases for some faint spark to rekindle my love of the game.

[RitsukoSonoda]

IMO Heavensward was akin to Final Fantasy III/VI whilst Endwalker is akin to Octopath Traveller.

Octopath is objectively the superior game. It's visually leagues ahead, it's better tuned, it's better paced, it has far deeper job kits, it has a whopping amount of side content, it offers the player more freedom right from the title screen.

But yet it it'll never be held in anything like the same regard as FF3/6. It feels comparatively soulless, it's predictable, the story is boring and at times it feels like it's been designed by a spreadsheet algorithm, it's just too formulaic. All the stories follow the same flow, all the paths are a similar length and the freedom of choice quickly evaporates unless you want to get your grinding hat on to overcome the missing exp you need to 'skip' a story.

I imported a copy of FF3 from NA via an importer in Tooting market, it cost me nearly £100 back then and it was worth every single penny. I remember the cool Moogle poster, I remember the wild story and gameplay twists, I remember grinding in the Dinosaur woods to build a Celes with Genji Glove, Offering, Drainer and Atma Sword that could solo pretty much anything. I remember loading out my Terra with the Gem Box and Economiser so that she was similarly devastating.

As for Octopath? I remember switching the trader girl to dancer to feed BP to the mage guy who's name I also can't remember and that's about it. *Edit* oh and the collectors edition stage box was cool. Didn't stop me selling it though.

Likewise, I'll carry memories of HW to my grave. By comparison, EW is utterly forgettable and might as well have been patch 5.6 IMHO.

One of the issues is that JRPG titles back in the 8 bit and 16 bit era had to draw players with story and depth of gameplay. The genre was nowhere near mainstream as people were obsessed with mario, sonic, streetfighter, mortal kombat, Zelda, etc in the west which resulted in mountains of JRPGs that never left Japan. The 8 bit and 16 bit visuals were good at the time, however were not as potent a draw as now where we have had numerous AAA titles that literally felt like they were made with the the mindset of distract with flash similar to someone jingling keys in front of an infant to amuse them.

FFXIV 1.0 kept with the franchise trend of trying to innovate and change the formula. FFXIV from ARR onward started as cloning WoW then proceeded to gut what little was left of normal RPG mechanics dumbing the gameplay down while trying to distract with a spectacle. FFXV made an attempt to change the franchise formula into a more open world action style that sadly showed their inexperience with that type of game style resulting in it having a lot of wasted potential. FFXVI took to being a Devil May Cry/Bayonetta clone with nearly everything RPG related removed while distracting players with a visual spectacle.

The main franchise has had a history of changes. Granted not all were big hits.
FF1. This actually changed things up from it's at the time Competitor Dragon Quest by having a party of more than 1 character and selectable classes
FF2. Here they decided to make actual characters for the story and changed the character development system to not use EXP which wasn't very well recieved
FF3. Back to exp lvl system. First game to introduce the job system.
FF4. Larger cast of rotating playable characters with set jobs.
FF5. Return to job system with added refinements to it. Introduced the concept of optional superbosses.
FF6. Large cast of rotating to eventually roster selection of playable characters including some which were missable. Featured a story line where the villain actually wins initially leading to the second half of the story being the process of cleaning up your failure. Introduced Magicite using it as a means to teach any character magic. Also set stage for what would eventually become Limit Breaks as characters had special hidden powerful attacks that could happen if fight command was chosen while at critical HP.
FF7. Introduced the Materia system to customize abilities
FF8. Draw/Junction system. Enemies always scaled to your level
FF9. Skill acquisition from equipment.
FF10. Sphere Grid
FF10-2. Garment Grid
FF11. First foray into making an MMORPG
FF12. First foray into a more action based play style. Gambit system introduced to automate gameplay.
FF13, 13-2, 13-3. TBH part of these felt like steps backwards but nothing from these titles really stuck with me.

[Nestama]

Said players also aren't participating in the content being mentioned, so that's not really an applicable point here. And even then, the difficulty of less intensive content, i.e. Alliance Raids, is notably lower in Endwalker than in prior expansions. Three expansions later, your average duty finder group isn't skipping Diabolos' Hollow Omen, or avoiding having to soak the phase two meteors, and his hollow camisado still slaps unwary tanks like a truck. Meanwhile, your average duty finder group can very likely skip major mechanics in the latest raid series due to how under-tuned boss health.

Trust me when I say there are no major mechanics being skipped in Thaleia at all. Their HP is low because they repeat attacks after 4-5 minutes (only Eulogia is the outlier because they have more than three attacks). Thaliak and (especially) Oschon are the worst offenders of this. Thaliak repeats at the second Triangle AoE phase (little after 4 minutes) and Oschon P1 repeats in a little less than 3 minutes. Phase 2 Oschon repeats after 3 minutes.

[Mayhemmer]

Trust me when I say there are no major mechanics being skipped in Thaleia at all. Their HP is low because they repeat attacks after 4-5 minutes (only Eulogia is the outlier because they have more than three attacks). Thaliak and (especially) Oschon are the worst offenders of this. Thaliak repeats at the second Triangle AoE phase (little after 4 minutes) and Oschon P1 repeats in a little less than 3 minutes. Phase 2 Oschon repeats after 3 minutes.

That's another criticism I have with many newer 24-mans, even most of the Yorha raids: there simply isn't much going on at any given time during a boss, and the things that do happen begin to repeat far too quickly. On top of mechanics already telegraphing themselves so blatantly you could see what was coming from space. Eulogia is a bit better at this though, because they combine a few of the individual mechanics very well. I'd just like to see them go back to Weeping City and Dun Scaith as inspiration when putting together encounters.

Like when almost every boss sits in one spot telegraphing a mechanic for 10-15 seconds straight TWICE, and lets you wail on them without a worry in the world, is it really a surprise that they get turned into paste so quickly? Too, too many alliance raid boss mechanics are boss-dependent. Things just don't happen anymore if the boss themselves aren't doing them, and I just think that's really boring fight design. It didn't always used to be like that.

[Nestama]

Rabanastre was also a really strong start to the Ivalice raids. Mateus has an interesting ice skating mechanic where everyone has a responsibility to pop bubbles and step on the pads (and failing those just gave us new responsibilities), and Hashmal is FAST.

Real talk, I have no idea why the battle team had Oschon use Reproduce three times. They could have had him spawn the two first thing and then throw in something more interesting to fill in the removed Reproduce attack... man the more I analyse these fights, the more disappointed I get. Oschon is easily the worst of the 4 in the raid. We get shown his Reproduce mechanic three times, see how it works (basically an easier version of Barbaricia's Savage Barbery and Hair Raid)... and then never see it again in the second phase.

[Mayhemmer]

Rabanastre was also a really strong start to the Ivalice raids. Mateus has an interesting ice skating mechanic where everyone has a responsibility to pop bubbles and step on the pads, and Hashmal is FAST.

Yes! Fun bosses have multiple things going on at once that aren't dependent on the boss. Myths just... doesn't really have much of that.