"The Discourse is Dumb and Endwalker is FINE" - Wesk Alber

[Absimiliard]

no matter what people are complaining about the state of the expansion yet it was far far worse than it was back then...

This reads like bait, but eh, what the heck. I'll bite.

I for one absolutely consider Heavensward and Stormblood to be stronger expansions. I found encounter and job design to be far preferable in those days. Yes, I say this in full knowledge of how horrendously overtuned the first tier of Alexander was. If anything, that further enhanced my enjoyment of HW.

[Kaurhz]

wesk is correct, no matter what people are complaining about the state of the expansion yet it was far far worse than it was back then...while i dont blame zepla for giving the bad actor's a voice...she seen this game on the surface level just like any of the msq andies who think shadowbringers was the mecca of good storytelling

I wouldn't go that far, to be honest...

HW did actually have a few decent systems, but they were locked behind, and/or required you to engage with several very, very poorly poorly designed subsystems, and/or very poorly created reward structures, e.g., in theory the Coven weapon wasn't that bad, but it was a layer of chance incorporated on 2 more layers of chance. There was some level of promise in these systems - Though these never were actually realized.

Same with the favor system, it was a good system, but it was introduced on other bad systems like a weekly-gated scrip system, and same with the gearing process for scrip gear itself, just to name another system.

I think it's accurate to say you could like it for selfish reasons, but whether or not those overall reasons would be healthy for the game itself is an entirely different matter. It's like some people who say every end-game recipe should be an expert recipe. You can like that, by all means, but it's not healthy for the game. That's the kind of expansion that HW was... You can actually apply this very same logic to a lot of the lesser flushed-out systems in EW though, to be honest. - Like, could you find them fun, or could they be aligned with your preferences? Absolutely... But that still doesn't necessarily make it healthy for the game itself, e.g., tome relics.

If I am honest, people can still make the case of EW being the worst expansion, however, people could also pretty easily alternatively make the case of HW being the absolute worst expansion as well if you were to look at them both for what they had at the time. Another point of his video was that people that parrot certain critiques or sentiments often haven't experienced it first-hand, nor could sufficiently elaborate enough on their own independent thoughts. Tangentially though, there are people doing the same thing now when it comes to looking on HW based on his own thoughts.

With criticisms like these it's important to make the distinction between personal tastes and what otherwise may be healthy for the game overall. Which does apply to both HW and EW.

[strawberrycake]

Another Reason why XIV is in this state is also because no one ever looks at XIV objectively and talks about it's flaws openly. In 10 years of playing XIV people have only shat on it because 1.0 and have blindly praised it after. WE as the community ofc talk about it's flaws, WE play the game ffs, so it only makes sense we see them. But getting the same treatment any other MMO has gotten? People actually playing the games and talking about the state of the game from when they last played it? Rarely happens for XIV.

People look at XIV and they praise not having to have an alt, not realizing how surface lvl that is when you're not looking at it from the PoV of a long time MMO player who may have alts to raid with friends due to how the loot system works for savage. Or they see a new feature being talked about and instead of watching the twitch vod if they didn't catch the Live Letter, they just regurgitate what the community says in hyperbole. And some of you say lmao games journalists, but seriously, people do NOT criticize this game enough. XIV is always put on this Pedestal, and this is exactly that. Yes HW was worse, it was their first Expansion, thats like saying the first cake a baker made was bad.

EW is an objectively lack luster expansion for multiple reasons, and it's due to a history of people not being more critical of XIV, if you have a worker and they do just an alright job, you never push them to be better, they stagnate. No one in the media, no one talking about this game outside the community actually gives this game a fair shake Positively or Negatively. It's all the same BS stuff we all knew about because it was a marketed feature and something that's easy to find in a google search. Sitting here comparing EW to an expansion that was nothing but over turned content with lows of nothing better to do other THEN stand in Limsa Isn't a fair comparison.

[BRVV]

I want new ideas, and for them to take the best ideas they've had and build upon them in ways that grab me like I'm playing something for the first time again.

I share that sentiment. Hope we are wrong but i can see why they would opt for Endwalker-Part2. An expansion is expensive. So you want to go with a "save" option. We see it all the time with games and movies.

I felt the video was a waste of time also all it did was misdirect endwalkers criticism and dissatisfaction towards another expansion while also being like "see endwalkers is actually an ok expansion'.

The thing that kind of annoys me of this video is that he makes an argument that nobody is arguing against. Like "See how HW was janky and EW is not janky?", like no one is arguing that past expansions had QoL fixes

Wesk is trying to move the goalpost, so he can argue against a view he can (easily) win.

47 minutes? Is the guy hiring a video editor? I promise whatever message he's trying to say can be compressed to AT LEAST half that.

I couldn't finish the video. I don't find enjoyment in a mockery of every little detail of a video game. Apparently Wesk just *had* to complain about every bit of HW.

V&C Dungeons (both) are not popular
Eureka Orthos is the worst DD and its queue died remarkably fast
The less we talk about Island Sanctuary the better

V&C Dungeons don't even have group finders up most of the time... but then again idk if most just prefer FC runs. It's almost sad how fast EO died. Hey IS got a mount now! It's fixed! /s

The video that this thread is supposed to be about actually went into great detail why so many systems were terrible in Heavensward. The man had MANY great points and I agree with him.

Good for you. Now tell me... where is "Heavensward" in the title? I can't seem to find it. It seems to have a baitpost title to sh*t on the community. Weird.

*snip*

Do you always defend those that come in and throw insults or is it just the catgirls?

[DPZ2]

Do you always defend those that come in and throw insults or is it just the catgirls?

For my part, the forums are not a Life or Death battle. I object to cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

There isn't a single cat girl on these forums, or Lalafell boy. They're avatars of real people.

Talk to me again when you come to that realization.

[Reap00]

For my part, the forums are not a Life or Death battle. I object to cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

There isn't a single cat girl on these forums, or Lalafell boy. They're avatars of real people.

Talk to me again when you come to that realization.

It was all he had man. When they have nothing they resort to absurdity.

[BRVV]

For my part, the forums are not a Life or Death battle. I object to cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

There isn't a single cat girl on these forums, or Lalafell boy. They're avatars of real people.

Talk to me again when you come to that realization.

I know that. Idk why you deem some are allowed to insult and others are not. If it's not the avatar than what is it? Are you just being a prick trying to start a fight?

You know FFXIV is just a game, right? None of it is real. This isn't a life or death battle. Come back when you realize that. No point in talking i guess but congratz on the dumbest thing i read here. Defending someone who just throws insults and being an aggressive b*tch. Does that work for you? Thanks for speedrunning me to the understanding that you are just a hater.

It was all he had man. When they have nothing they resort to absurdity.

"NO EW WAS GREAT!!!!" - You everytime. It's seems like it's all you can Mrs 2 braincells rub together

[Volgia]

I know that. Idk why you deem some are allowed to insult and others are not. If it's not the avatar than what is it? Are you just being a prick trying to start a fight?

You know FFXIV is just a game, right? None of it is real. This isn't a life or death battle. Come back when you realize that. No point in talking i guess but congratz on the dumbest thing i read here. Defending someone who just throws insults and being an aggressive b*tch. Does that work for you? Thanks for speedrunning me to the understanding that you are just a hater.



"NO EW WAS GREAT!!!!" - You everytime. It's seems like it's all you can Mrs 2 braincells rub together

I

Honestly, was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but this dynamic duo only argue in bad faith, so from now on it should be better to just ignore them I've seen them in other posts with the same weird aggressive and dismissive attittude.

[Zairava]

Man bitches about Heavensward to try and make Endwalker look better than it actually is.

There, saved the people who're just getting here 47 minutes.

See you in 7.0 when DRG gets gutted Alber.

[Aexnidaral]

On the margins it's probably a good thing for the overall health and longevity of the game the people feel more comfortable being vocal about their criticisms for this game. Over the past couple of years or so things have been a bit too much of a hug-fest with many good faith criticisms, even if you disagree with them, getting absolutely lambasted for no discernable reason.

I disagree with most of Alber's thoughts in this video for the same reason I've had him blocked on Twitter for ages: he's kind of just a bad take content farm, but the more voices that add to the discourse the better, I suppose.

It is funny to me that so many people talk about the mythical "dead game doomers" when they don't *really* exist. Sure there are a couple of them that say shit like that but it's an extreme minority, and it's disingenuous for people to treat it like it's a serious issue or really give it any sort of thought in the discourse.