"The Discourse is Dumb and Endwalker is FINE" - Wesk Alber

[Fawkes]

Endwalker was great, post patches have been hit or miss.

It does bug me that people seem to say the expansion name to mean the patches too nowadays.

[SieyaM]

Jobs should be interesting enough that people will want to play as them. I feel that if people are so ready and willing to change jobs just because meta or whatever demands it, then it means the jobs aren't all that interesting and people aren't playing them because they like them but just because it suits their needs at the time.

[SannaR]

People really did not take WAR, PLD, MNK, MCH, SAM, WHM and DRK at different parts of this game's life. To the point where people did so without knowing why a group would not want to even in content where excluding them wouldn't have mattered. Yet look at people in PF 6 weeks after a savage tier comes oit and the fact they'd have dumb restrictions on them like the stupid high ilvs. That would prevent people who knew what they were doing to join just cause they were joining on a job that wasn't as geared as their main. Look at the whole skip Soar meme. People wanted to skip it because it was too hard even though later in the fight you still had to do a Soar. There would be people who wouldn't look at a MCH's numbers and just kick em from a PF group cause lol MCH ping is bad and there were a lot of bad MCH. Or if they did take a great MCH and a wipe happened they'd kick em then assuming it had to be the person playing the "crap" job.

[Turtledeluxe]

People really did not take WAR, PLD, MNK, MCH, SAM, WHM and DRK at different parts of this game's life. To the point where people did so without knowing why a group would not want to even in content where excluding them wouldn't have mattered. Yet look at people in PF 6 weeks after a savage tier comes oit and the fact they'd have dumb restrictions on them like the stupid high ilvs. That would prevent people who knew what they were doing to join just cause they were joining on a job that wasn't as geared as their main. Look at the whole skip Soar meme. People wanted to skip it because it was too hard even though later in the fight you still had to do a Soar. There would be people who wouldn't look at a MCH's numbers and just kick em from a PF group cause lol MCH ping is bad and there were a lot of bad MCH. Or if they did take a great MCH and a wipe happened they'd kick em then assuming it had to be the person playing the "crap" job.

Yes and those are isolated and extreme cases that literally don't neccesitate the vast oversimplification and homogenization that has occurred.

And per your notes about MCH, that's players. That isn't FFXiV-- it's players. Devs are in a perpetual cycle of homogenizing and simplifying when players are always going to make assumptions and create metas. It is a battle they will never win and they should stop now, reverse direction. Accept that not every job will be meta or loved by everyone and stick to their own creative vision.

[SannaR]

Yes and those are isolated and extreme cases that literally don't neccesitate the vast oversimplification and homogenization that has occurred.

And per your notes about MCH, that's players. That isn't FFXiV-- it's players. Devs are in a perpetual cycle of homogenizing and simplifying when players are always going to make assumptions and create metas. It is a battle they will never win and they should stop now, reverse direction. Accept that not every job will be meta or loved by everyone and stick to their own creative vision.

It wasn't isolated and extreme cases and sure it is all on the playerbase. Yet no one wanted a PLD or MNK for most of HW. At least not while you were progging a fight. Same thing happened at other points in the game. The homogenization of jobs came from people complaining for years to balance the jobs so that you wouldn't run into the problem we created of not being able to do a fight on the job you main. Now does that mean that jobs might not feel like themselves? Yeah. Which even I don't like. I don't think that we should go all the way back cause even back then there were some dumb things the devs thought we liked.