"The Discourse is Dumb and Endwalker is FINE" - Wesk Alber

[Nebelheim]

Such passive aggressiveness. Typical of the average FFXIV community.

I mean I also do it so...

The person they responded to never provides anything insightful or constructive and only comes in when they see something they think is "negative" with there usual "go touch grass or don't play if you don't like it" as a response to someone criticizing ff14.

[Zairava]

Such passive aggressiveness. Typical of the average FFXIV community.

I mean I also do it so...

Wake me up when they actually try to discuss anything instead of going on their quintillionth speal of "just unsub and play other games" "WoW bad ffxiv good", completely missing the entire point of using a forum site used for feedback

[Atelier-Bagur]

I eish ff14 would evolve each expansion rather then remain the same. Even ff11 changed systems and endgame each expansion end evolved enough to maintain a subbase during it's peak.

Ehhh...the general consensus was the peak of FFXI was Chains of Promathia which was the 3rd expansion. People sorta jumped off afterwards I believe.

Also having huge system changes in every expansion is a terrible thing for an MMO. Its what initially killed WoW

[Nebelheim]

Ehhh...the general consensus was the peak of FFXI was Chains of Promathia which was the 3rd expansion. People sorta jumped off afterwards I believe.

Also having huge system changes in every expansion is a terrible thing for an MMO. Its what initially killed WoW

Aht Urghan was the 3rd expansion which is when ff11 peaked and wings of the goddess the 4th expansion the player base didn't drop off much. Abyssea is what ff11 players claim killed off ff11 which is when ff14 1.0 also came out and sqaure was trying to push ff11 players to ff14 1.0 and kill off 11. But thats why most private servers do promathia or aht urghan era ff11 because those 2 expansions are what most ff11 players consider the best era while some cater to wings of the goddess fans. I'm part of the retail playerbase who enjoys current retail but also enjoyed all other era's as well and each expansion saw an evolution when it came to gameplay/combat and meta changes.

[strawberrycake]

Ehhh...the general consensus was the peak of FFXI was Chains of Promathia which was the 3rd expansion. People sorta jumped off afterwards I believe.

Also having huge system changes in every expansion is a terrible thing for an MMO. Its what initially killed WoW

Actually, what Killed WoW is a much deeper issue, saying change every expansion is a very surface lvl take. What killed WoW was a lack of evergreen content, overly high retention mechanics and lack of content that appealed to a general player, most content only appealed to hard core or casual, it's midcore died for a time. After all that damage, borrowed power systems being ramped up then helped piss people off more. So you're not wrong, but let's not make a boggy man out of needed change.

The goal is to change but make sure it's meaningful change.

[4clubbedace]

you people put too much prestige and authority into streamers and not of your own opinions

[Atelier-Bagur]

Actually, what Killed WoW is a much deeper issue, saying change every expansion is a very surface lvl take. What killed WoW was a lack of evergreen content, overly high retention mechanics and lack of content that appealed to a general player, most content only appealed to hard core or casual, it's midcore died for a time. After all that damage, borrowed power systems being ramped up then helped piss people off more. So you're not wrong, but let's not make a boggy man out of needed change.

The goal is to change but make sure it's meaningful change.

I will also add in feature creep and bloat. Game is too big with heavy emphasis of abandonning previous zones and content. Its why so many people enjoy the simplicity of Vanilla WoW. You cant rely having additions of evergreen content as youll kill off the playerbase with lots of chores and activities. Which was something that they double down in BFA. So yes I feel my statement stills stands....kinda..

However in its current stage, I believe many of its QoL and content updates have been pretty good regardless.

[CNitsah]

Not to be that guy, but that video tells nothing about endwalker being fine, it mostly tells that HW was far worst at release than we remember and it is now. EW can still be problematic while better on day to day than HW. One of the biggest criticism about EW is the lack of meaningful long running content (the 2 most common forms of that being the relics and the lack of exploratory zone), and both are a step back compared to ShB. As the guy himself said, the only worst part of FFXIV is ARR post patch, which means, despite being chaotic, was still an improvment compared to ARR. The whole argument "EW is fine because HW was worst" is so dumb to me, because it ignores the 2 expansions between HW and EW.

[ThaCa]

Endwalker was great, post patches have been hit or miss.