Personal thoughts about Fall Guys achievement

[Ryotsune]

As the Fall Guys event&achievement is at the center of the forum/Reddit etc, i would take some time to explain imho what is the issue about this (kind of) achievement and what solution we could bring to improve the thing with a view to doing progress for everybody.

Firstly, i'm gonna use another achievement with the Fall Guys to explain what is the main issue to me, which is Hounding the Rock (from Seal Rock frontline map.)

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/6d02ecfa6f2/

My main issue with this achievement is that, while frontlines are supposed to be ruled by a team effort & cooperation, this achievement is actually doing the opposite. For example, if you're 5 trying to capture a point, it'll be 1 person who progress and 4 who can just cry, while they all contributed to the objective. Besides, neutralisations purely doesn't count while it's the same thing gameplay-related (You click, bar is filling, goal done, next.) So, in the end, it'll encourage toxic behaviour of people, trying to camp behind while they leave their team outnumbered. After, the achievement itself isn't bad as it's a way to push people to play the objective, which is the wanted effect. But i see 2 solutions to improve this :

1 : Make neutralisations count. Again, it's the same action as capturing and just doing this will double the progression
2 : As frontline is about team gameplay, make all the team capture/neutralisation count, because it'll encourage everybody to play objectives without having to think about achievement, leaving more space to focus on the map.

The idea is to make progression as smooth as possible, even if it implies to grind a little bit more.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/ce553fb4e9f/

Whatever grindy the Tank You achievement is, at least it has the merit of offering a guarantee on progression : you do a dungeon/raid for 5 to 20 minutes and you gain +1.

And that's the idea about Fall Guys achievement. Replacing (or reducing the number of wins to 10 like JACTAs) the achievement by "Participate to XXX Blundervilles" or "Win XXX rounds" would reward player effort while having fun because the pressure about winning wouldn't be such a priority. And if you win, it's a bonus. Also, as it's a collaboration, i think it's best to give player a good experience, thus all the idea about frustrating-reducing thought.

[Ryotsune]

Finally, i would point that usually, SE manages to create very friendly events, more based on having a good time than losing your mind grinding achievements. Even stuff like GARO didn't give me the impression of being a bad moment (aside PVP normal frustration which is normal.)

I know SE won't be able to do anything right now but i sincerly hope they'll learn lessons from this experience while preparing the next iteration. Aside of all its issue, Fall Guys is very fun and it shouldn't discourage them to keep going if they manage to understand what's right and what's wrong.

Feel free to give your opinion, my post isn't about changing minds & stuff but more about bringing some constructive reflection for the sake and the future of FF14's next collaborative events.

Take care <3

[Jeeqbit]

It's not meant to be a contribution to an objective, though, it is essentially PvP. Just like Chocobo Racing, Verminion and Triple Triad have PvP.

[Tsumdere]

The achievement is pretty frustrating. I've only won twice despite being to Round 3 nearly every single time I play (probably around 100 matches rn). My ping just is slightly worse than other people and I get destroyed by exaflares specifically despite being far past them. Wins are largely RNG for medium to high ping players to whether or not you get hit by an AoE that is off your screen behind you and/or if your opponents have worse/equal ping to you.

That being said, I don't think it should be participation. It's PvP and should be treated as such. It should absolutely be lowered from 100 though. Even halving it to 50 would be grind enough.

[Ryotsune]

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

[AesirSyn]

You are 100% on point. I know SE likes to reward participation via grinding, but 100 wins is way too much, hell 10 is way too much for a game that has severe netcode issues and is super frustrating. I'll never play enough of this to do that. I got my 1 win and I'm good. I have about 4-5 more runs to get the minion and music scroll and then I won't be going in again.

If it was Qualify in 100 rounds I would probably take the time to do it, but win 100 times? Nah, that isn't a fun goal to have set.

Making things prohibitive for people doesn't make a successful event, it makes an event where people put in bare minimum effort and an empty event once everyone gets the rewards. You have to make goals attainable for people to want to try.

All of that aside though, it is super cute and a very nice fresh breath in the game. The gear is cute and different. I'm enjoying seeing the unique combinations people are doing in their glams. I'm looking forward to the next fun event with changes based on what they've learned here.

[TomsYoungerBro]

I don't think this achievement was meant for the majority of the playerbase, but rather to keep the less-casual crowd more interested in grinding something out. The rewards in the shop do not take many games to get all of the rewards, especially if you get through multiple rounds per game, so that is the "always progression" that the entire playerbase has in Fall Guys. Every little update doesn't need to be for everyone.

[Jeeqbit]

The achievement is pretty frustrating. I've only won twice despite being to Round 3 nearly every single time I play (probably around 100 matches rn). My ping just is slightly worse than other people and I get destroyed by exaflares specifically despite being far past them. Wins are largely RNG for medium to high ping players to whether or not you get hit by an AoE that is off your screen behind you and/or if your opponents have worse/equal ping to you.

Yes, I've been to Round 3 many times as well and got affected by ping a lot. Even on my best runs someone wins. One time I was within half a second of beating someone. But I figure eventually I will if I keep doing it.

You are 100% on point. I know SE likes to reward participation via grinding, but 100 wins is way too much

Nothing new though. Most of the achievements in the game are unreasonable like this. It's why I decided they weren't fun and to focus on mounts, minions and TT cards instead of achievements.

[LilimoLimomo]

If the associated reward was a mount or gear or an emote or something, I would probably be critical of this achievement. However, the reward is just a title that lets everyone know you did the thing. And what's the thing? Getting 100 wins. It's there for people who are super hardcore for this event, and if that's not you, that's fine.

There are plenty of titles in the game that I will never get because they require doing an amount of something that I don't want to do. And that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. I hope the people who enjoy doing those things more than I do enjoy their titles, just as I'll enjoy seeing them with their titles.

My earnest advice: if the prospect of getting 100 wins for this title fills you with negative feelings, don't chase it. This is not a thing you need. Accept that you're not going to get it and move on. And then when you see someone with the title Queen Bean, you can think to yourself, "Wow, that player was really hardcore for Fall Guys!"

[Tsumdere]

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

I'm confused over this statement. Just like Seal Rock, there is achievements and rewards you can only get through winning in Onsal.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Construct_VII_(Mount)

It is entirely possible to win and work on this achievement even if the netcode sucks. I won twice in the one session I've played.
The event is here for months. You don't need <Queen Bean> right this very second, just like you don't need the Seal Rock coat or Onsal mount right this very second.
Long term goals are good and keep the mode alive. 100 Participation rounds would have been achieved by pretty much everyone at this point except those who are exceptionally bad. You would only need 50 matches if you qualified the first two rounds, which would take less than 4 hours. That's terrible to keep the mode alive.

For example, I would have no reason to go back since I would already have all rewards and the title after 1 night of playing.