Endwalker hates mid-core players

[Frost1800]

In Endwalkers, for causal players, there are:
Island Sanctuary
Seasonal events
MSQ and Sidequests
Dungeons
Custom Deliveries
Beast tribes
Eureka Orthos
Variant dungeons.

For hard-core players, there are:
12 Savage raids
2 Ultimates
3 Criterion Savages

For mid-core players, there are:
7 Extreme trials
3 Criterion dungeons
5 Unreal trials (not exactly new content)

I think having more mid-core content, can help players transition from causal to hard-core content, so it is not exactly only helpful for mid-core players only.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I agree Mid core players got the short end of the stick in this expac. We didnt even get an involved relic progression this expac. In the past relics kept me playing in between tiers since I enjoy the grind every day but this expac it was so meh. Relic was boiled down to do a hindy quest, buy 3 mats with tombstones, and then get the relic. So boring and not engaging at all since I could get my relic on the first day the new one came out. Now Hardcore players get yet another glowy weapon with this patch that they can work towards meanwhile mid-core get a boring relic quest that only requires them to turn in tombstones. I dont know if ppl consider relics as mid-core or not, but I do since doing relics in the past was a grind and time investment. This tier relic tho I would say is aimed more toward casual players than anyone else since it is super easy to get.

[Bonoki]

Said it before will say it again.

Midcore content is lacking because everyone has an unagreeable different definition of what Mid-core actually means.
Most mid-core content usually pendulates in one direction (casual or hardcore) more than neutrally in the middle.

Sub note: The devs have gone on record to say that Relics are casual content to them not Mid-core.

[Musashidon]

can't hate something that doesn't exist mid core is a myth.

[SernMoe]

Criterion is more hardcore than 7/12 savages

[VerdeLuck]

Listing Seasonal Events alongside Savage Raids seems a bit disingenuous, those are at most 2 quests that cannot be repeated, and take a total of about 10 minutes to complete and earn everything for.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Said it before will say it again.

Midcore content is lacking because everyone has an unagreeable different definition of what Mid-core actually means.
Most mid-core content usually pendulates in one direction (casual or hardcore) more than neutrally in the middle.

Sub note: The devs have gone on record to say that Relics are casual content to them not Mid-core.

Midcore is never midcore for multiple people.

Heck we even have people like Zepla and Mr.Happy saying that Savage is considered midcore and that is the most out of touching thing Ive yet to hear.

[LilimoLimomo]

In Endwalkers, for causal players, there are:
Island Sanctuary
Seasonal events
MSQ and Sidequests
Dungeons
Custom Deliveries
Beast tribes
Eureka Orthos
Variant dungeons.

For hard-core players, there are:
12 Savage raids
2 Ultimates
3 Criterion Savages

For mid-core players, there are:
7 Extreme trials
3 Criterion dungeons
5 Unreal trials (not exactly new content)

I think having more mid-core content, can help players transition from causal to hard-core content, so it is not exactly only helpful for mid-core players only.

I think a lot of this becomes messy because there are numerous ways to be "casual" and numerous ways to be "hardcore", so we often disagree on this terminology. Things can be hardcore because of game difficulty, but they can also be hardcore because of things like time commitments and convenience. For some people a need to communicate can be hardcore. What some players take for granted will be a big ask for others.

For example, the most important aspect of "casual" content for me is that I can conveniently access it without devoting a lot of time or overhead to the process of getting in the door. If I would need a Party Finder or a static instead of automated matchmaking, that's hardcore content.

And in terms of difficulty, I do want to be challenged, but I don't want to be faced against something so challenging and nuanced that I'm expected to have read a guide first. Personally, I'd like something that my group of randomly matched newcomers will be able to figure out from scratch before the instance timer runs out; for my needs, that would be a good mid-core. But if there are runs entirely devoted to progging, that's hardcore. And in terms of challenge, that keeps me away from the "hardcore" side of FF14 content, even though the "casual" content has less oomph than would be ideal.

When we talk about bridging the casual vs hardcore gap, I think we too often focus entirely on difficulty and challenge and ignore these other spectrums. We think about content that gradually raises in difficulty until players are facing the game's greatest challenges, but we forget that there's no content that is capable of converting a player who doesn't want to spend 20 minutes waiting in Party Finder into someone who is fine with that; there's no well-balanced trial that is going to en masse change players' personal preferences. There are barriers that prevent players from graduating to more difficult content that have nothing to do with skill.

All of which is to say, we will never be able to solve these problems until we learn to discuss all of these different aspects of the issue. For some players, the thing that's keeping them from doing Savage content isn't a lack of skill or a desire to improve as a player, but rather that they only have limited and sporadic windows during which they can game, or that after a long day of work they just don't have the energy to talk to other people.

[Colt47]

Midcore is never midcore for multiple people.

Heck we even have people like Zepla and Mr.Happy saying that Savage is considered midcore and that is the most out of touching thing Ive yet to hear.

Uh, yeah the people whose job is to literally make videos and grind content to make videos are probably not the best people to ask what qualifies as midcore. The average person playing this game isn't even doing it when they are at their best condition: most are doing it after work or school and are tired, worn out, and maybe playing anywhere from 2-4 hours a night.

And mid-core content in an MMO is where gearing up happens normally. While some games do push higher level gear in the hardest content, they are really the exception over the norm. Heck, FFXIV is the weirdest with end game since they make dyable armor only available from savage for some reason, and then no one has a right to a true top tier weapon outside savage until the very end of the expansion when it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone should have access to the top iLvL weapon from mid-core, what they should be doing is giving cosmetic upgrades or something like a trophy item for doing the hardest content.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Said it before will say it again.

Midcore content is lacking because everyone has an unagreeable different definition of what Mid-core actually means.
Most mid-core content usually pendulates in one direction (casual or hardcore) more than neutrally in the middle.

Sub note: The devs have gone on record to say that Relics are casual content to them not Mid-core.

I don't know what the devs are smoking if they consider relics mid-core.

ARR core relics are insanely grindy and casuals simply don't bother. Arguably the same with HW relics.

Eureka is especially gatekeepy with its compounding subsystems, so also definitely not something casuals pursue.

And Bozja is only modestly less demanding than Eureka, and like Eureka most casuals didn't even bother participating in it.

The only relics that have even marginally been "casual" have been Endwalker relics, and not only have they been criticized for lacking any real content, but I think it was a poor decision to designate *any* prestige weapon grind as "casual".

Roulettes are casual. Gold Saucer is casual. Festivals are casual. Island Sanctuary is casual. Retainers and housing and glams are casual. If relics are supposed to be "casual", then the devs are losing their touch, and I suppose nothing in the game is intended to mean anything anymore under this guise of "listening to fans" and "accessibility".

I'm not even really in any place to be indignant as a matter of personal offense. I am quite casual. I got through the first map and a bit of both Bozja and Eureka before giving up. I haven't bothered with current tier Savage or Extremes. I haven't bothered with Criterions. The most "mid-core" stuff I ever did was a single ARR relic and HW relic, and that was plenty "not casual" enough for me to (a) be hesitant about even attempting it and (b) never want to do it again. I'm mostly just offended at how delusionally wrong the devs' take is on that.