Samurai Double Dot?

[SoloD007]

Hi Creative business unit III or Yoshi-P.

I'm writing my idea for samurai overall rotation and dps improvement. As of currently (Patch 6.51) Samurai Higanbana and Kaeshi: Higanbana DoT skill is at a dilemma. Long since expansion 5.x to now Kaeshi: Higanbana is hardly used by Samurai players in any kind of format (Dungeons, normal raids, savage raids and 24 man raids) which is really a disappointment as I can see the potential damage of it but it is not worth to sacrifice an extra Kaeshi: Midare Setsugekka for it. So i'm suggesting if Higanbana and Kaeshi: Higanbana DoT skill can stack, like 2 DoT markers on the boss, one the normal Higanbana and one Kaeshi version on the boss. The idea also opens up a whole new play strategy for Samurai players as it gives player more choice to choose either the DoT path or instant damage path for Iaijutsu. I do need to add that the only situation I can think of when a Samurai right now at patch 6.51 where he/she is forced to use Kaeshi: Higanbana is when she about to die from the next AoE or from a unexpected tank buster (because tank died and didnt pull aggro off in time). Even then, im not sure the weakness debuff causing dps loss from midare setsugekka is more or less than a Kaeshi: Higanbana. Anyways, i have rumbled of a bit. I would love to hear some constructive feedback about this idea because Samurai job is a job that is close to my heart (It's the reason I started playing FFXIV) and I still play/main Samurai from patch 4.31 to now in all content, casual/savage etc.

Thanks for reading

[VentVanitas]

not gonna lie I forgot Kaeshi: Higanbana existed entirely. my only issue with hypothetical DoT stacking on SAM is that having two 60s DoTs barely feels any different than just having one, especially when both can essentially be reapplied at the same time.

[SoloD007]

not gonna lie I forgot Kaeshi: Higanbana existed entirely. my only issue with hypothetical DoT stacking on SAM is that having two 60s DoTs barely feels any different than just having one, especially when both can essentially be reapplied at the same time.

Yeah, Kaeshi: Higanbana is very very rarely used. But what if the two hingbana stacks timer is reduced down to 30 secs each? I don't know the works, min/max etc but I just feel that Kaeshi: Higanbana needs a re-work or something because yeah having a skill you never touch is a waste... and that saddens me.

[HikariKurosawa]

if anything it should be made into an aoe application with a different animation. it's probably never worth it to use even on double target aoe, but maybe if it was a full blown conal aoe it would be worth it to use. then they would kinda have reason to add the aoe yukikaze they showed in endwalker job actions preview.

aoe rotation without most cooldowns and ogcd could be: meikyo > mangetsu > oka > tenka goken > tsubame > yukikaze aoe > higanbana > tsubame higanbana

Then we can get back a conal aoe. It fits better on an aoe dot than it does on tenka goken anyway. Meaningful positioning requirements for the dot application, then pumping damage in the fray with tenka goken.

[wereotter]

Yeah, Kaeshi: Higanbana is very very rarely used. But what if the two hingbana stacks timer is reduced down to 30 secs each? I don't know the works, min/max etc but I just feel that Kaeshi: Higanbana needs a re-work or something because yeah having a skill you never touch is a waste... and that saddens me.

Not that it makes it any better.... but anatman, hyoton, and physick on summoner have been useless abilities pretty much the entire time they've existed too. They likely intentionally made kaeshi higanbana not apply a second dot, and just make it an incredibly niche ability (like when you're in fights with two bosses. Hansel & Gretel as well as Xun-Zi & Meng-Zi both in Tower at Paradigm's Breach are examples of this)

Being a niche skill isn't the same as being a skill you never use.

[Rongway]

Not that it makes it any better.... but anatman, hyoton, and physick on summoner have been useless abilities pretty much the entire time they've existed too. They likely intentionally made kaeshi higanbana not apply a second dot, and just make it an incredibly niche ability (like when you're in fights with two bosses. Hansel & Gretel as well as Xun-Zi & Meng-Zi both in Tower at Paradigm's Breach are examples of this)

Being a niche skill isn't the same as being a skill you never use.

If you need to DoT two enemies for some reason you'll do more dps if you use regular Higanbana twice rather than lose a Kaeshi:Setsugekka. If you used Kaeshi:Higanbana on a second target, it would only discount you a single Sen, which you could have built up manually in two hits. Kaeshi:Setsugekka is worth three Sen, which would have taken eight hits to build up.

Kaeshi:Higanbana is a bad niche ability that people should never use.

[SoloD007]

Not that it makes it any better.... but anatman, hyoton, and physick on summoner have been useless abilities pretty much the entire time they've existed too. They likely intentionally made kaeshi higanbana not apply a second dot, and just make it an incredibly niche ability (like when you're in fights with two bosses. Hansel & Gretel as well as Xun-Zi & Meng-Zi both in Tower at Paradigm's Breach are examples of this)

Being a niche skill isn't the same as being a skill you never use.

Hmmm... Yeah that makes sense. Double bosses is a niche, I didn't think of that situation. Thanks

[SoloD007]

If you need to DoT two enemies for some reason you'll do more dps if you use regular Higanbana twice rather than lose a Kaeshi:Setsugekka. If you used Kaeshi:Higanbana on a second target, it would only discount you a single Sen, which you could have built up manually in two hits. Kaeshi:Setsugekka is worth three Sen, which would have taken eight hits to build up.

Kaeshi:Higanbana is a bad niche ability that people should never use.

Yeah, I also agree with you about this, probably the reason barely anytime or never use Kaeshi: Higanbana...

[SoloD007]

if anything it should be made into an aoe application with a different animation. it's probably never worth it to use even on double target aoe, but maybe if it was a full blown conal aoe it would be worth it to use. then they would kinda have reason to add the aoe yukikaze they showed in endwalker job actions preview.

aoe rotation without most cooldowns and ogcd could be: meikyo > mangetsu > oka > tenka goken > tsubame > yukikaze aoe > higanbana > tsubame higanbana

Then we can get back a conal aoe. It fits better on an aoe dot than it does on tenka goken anyway. Meaningful positioning requirements for the dot application, then pumping damage in the fray with tenka goken.

I do agree with a different animation but I don't really agree with a AOE (not that it's a bad idea) just more hoping for potentially another single target ability...? (Yes, I know I'm being a little bit greedy here with this) Haha

[HikariKurosawa]

I think maybe a dot kenki ability would be interesting since kenki is currently reduced to shinten spam. They could go with adding a whole new button(could make the job too bloated), or just make using higanbana transform the shinten button into a different ability if weaved directly after.

Then we'd have to make sure to have kenki for higanbana and it wouldn't really add busywork since it'd always be applied alongside higanbana. Maybe even make it cost 50 kenki to make kenki management more meaningful. Too easy to cap out on kenki as is and I think that's the part of the job that needs the most attention currently.