Future Endgame gear vs crafted gear with Materia.

[Kafeen]

pics plz i wanna see this 5.5k hp pld/war with melds cause i think its bs i know a pld on Sarg with triple hp tier III meld in all slots you can get it in and does not have 5.5k hp.

I doubt you're going to get a screenshot. The character he's used for his profile here is just a sock. If someone isn't even prepared to say who they are they're not going to show themselves. That way they won't be able to continue to troll the forums without getting a bad rep ingame.

May as well stop feeling the troll.

As for the original topic, I think its absolutely ridiculous. Making raid gear better than anything else will only serve to remove what little is left for end-game DoH and DoL classes. With the exception of CUL and ALC who can still make food and pots, no one else will be needed.

I think the best solution is that that the game started with and several others here have already mentioned. Items like Dodore Doublet where the final item is crafted but the materials for the synth come from end-game raid/NMs along with other materials from high level gathering points. Have the top end-game equipment require ALL aspects of the game to be included, not just repeating the same few dungeons again and again because we know how fun that is from Primals, right?

If the issue is that they can be bought, then make the items and/or the materials untradable and offer an interface for people to have items crafted for them or don't and make the best gear require players to personally do all areas of game content in order to get the best gear. Its a harsh solution but getting the best shouldn't be easy.

For something that the OP says the vast majority of people want, I'm pleased to see that the vast majority of people here disagree.

[Absconditus]

It may have been brought up already, and I apologize if I am beating a dead horse, but personally I were a rather big fan of the Cursed Abjuration system in XI. It required both high-level crafts and endgame content to be done, a good middle-way between crafters and "raiders", both relying on one another. I'll admit to not have read all 13 pages of this thread.

I do not agree that crafted (and melded) equipment should come second to any drops you may find in end-game content. This removes the need for crafting more or less completely (you can argue that you can just as well level "naked" with leve rewarded equipment, until you get to NM drops at Lv.30 and 35, which you can use until Lv.50 and AF). Not everyone wants to do crafting, no, but you aren't exactly forced to do it either, as you can get others to craft, meld and repair for you. Currently, some of the absolute best equipment is from drops at any rate, and there are only a select few slots (mainly accessories), where crafted items are truly better and/or "needed".

Break it down, see how much you really need to do; In certain cases, do end-game content with friends to get the expensive materials (ie. Spruce Pattens—Garlean Rubber, Vanya Sash—Garlean Fiber, Darksteel Haubergeon—Garlean Steel Plate), sell what you don't need to purchase the remaining ones and find a crafter you trust (LS friend in example) to make your item. Go out and Spiritbond some cheap equipment (made by your friend and/or purchased on the Markets). Put up a Melding Request for your crafted item, once you get your desired Materia.

An example of a PLD tank gear setup (would be more or less the same on WAR):

Sword: Garuda's Gaze (Garuda)
Shield: Serpent Sergeant's Hoplon (Grand Company)
Body: Heavy Darklight Armor (Aurum Vale)
Hands: Heavy Darklight Gauntlets (Cutter's Cry)
Legs: Heavy Darklight Flanchard (Cutter's Cry)
Belt: Sentinel's Plate Belt w/ Touch of Rage and/or Bloodthirst Materia IV/III's (Natalan + Melded)
Ring 1: Electrum Ring +1 (Crafted)
Ring 2: Blessed Ring or Stonewall Ring (Aurum Vale)
Earrings: Stonewall Earrings (Cutter's Cry)
Neck: Militia Choker (Hamlet)
Wrists: Coral Armillae +1 (Crafted)

How much of this is crafted again? Two pieces and one meld? It's the same case for mostly all the jobs available to us, the better stuff, depending on what you focus on, is likely going to be from drops in end-game content, and not from crafting. There are a few exceptions to the slots, but that's only reasonable in order to keep a balance.

Should we take a look at a different class? How about DRG?

Weapon: Ifrit's Harpoon (Ifrit)
Head: Darklight Eyepatch (Cutter's Cry)
Body: Darklight Corselet (Aurum Vale)
Hands: Darklight Gauntlets (Cutter's Cry)
Legs: Militia Subligar (Hamlet)
Feet: Darklight Caligae (Cutter's Cry)
Belt: Veteran's Field Belt or Explorer's Belt (Aurum Vale)
Ring 1: Electrum Ring +1 (Crafted)
Ring 2: Explorer's Ring (Cutter's Cry)
Earrings: Explorer's Earrings (Aurum Vale)
Neck: Explorer's Choker (Cutter's Cry)
Wrists: Imperial Operative Wristlets (Castrum Novum)

With very good equipment, you only need one crafted ring. A single item, and no melds at all. How is this calling for crafts to be second to all drops? Sorry for disagreeing, but I would rather see them increase the amount of synergy between crafters and "raiders", through more drops "raiders" can use crafters for, to make their great equipment. Not for every slot, but more than what we currently have. This is why I really liked the Cursed Abjuration system of XI. The crafters depended on "raiders" to get their gil, the "raiders" depended on crafters to make their equipment after getting drops from end-game.

I don't mean that I want the exact same system, but I at least, enjoy the fact that Castrum Novum drops materials for very good end-game equipment. And hope to see them develop this trend further.

[Felis]

Hmm, very long discussion here.
Easy solution: SE can bring dungeon gear that is similiar to tripple materia gear with a lower droprate than the current AV+CC gear known as darklight gear (bette gear = lower droprate). Hmm, say 0,05%

Hardcore players keep their reward if they are hardcore enough, content don't get outdated too fast and crafters can still sell their stuff.

[TessaJalloh]

ITT: OP doesn't want to craft. Uses poorly informed argument to convince community crafting is bad mmkay.

[Hyrist]

Why not make a variety of tiered raid gear that is comparable to melds.

Some pieces, equivilant to double meld (through differing methods.) and some, comparable to triple meld?

This shouldn't be a matter of 'This should be better than another." Because you're going to want them anyways. They're trophies. Now, what you can do to entice others to do the raids is offer unique stats from the raid gear that's different from the raw stats from other gear.

Vice versa applies as well.

I've said this before, but the concept of 'one optimum build' is unhealthy for MMOs, it creates power creep and that can be detrimental to the long term life of content. Content should be clear-able without the 'best in slot' looming over each player's head. There are other prizes that can be won that people would desire - such as housing items, powerful consumables (Unique Materia anyone?), Summons, titles, and other perks that can be gained on the personal or even Company level.

You do not need to tie raiding to the best gear available in the game to make it desirable.

[Churchill]

Hmm, very long discussion here.
Easy solution: SE can bring dungeon gear that is similiar to tripple materia gear with a lower droprate than the current AV+CC gear known as darklight gear (bette gear = lower droprate). Hmm, say 0,05%

Hardcore players keep their reward if they are hardcore enough, content don't get outdated too fast and crafters can still sell their stuff.

Making things a random 0.05% drop rate isn't good game design, and something they hinted would be going away.

XI still has that going on if that's what suits your fancy.

[Amsai]

Ok yea Im a troll, whatever you just dont like hearing about any real problems this game may come against. SE has 1 shot to get this right after 2.0. We can only hope that they make good decisions, and not cater too much to crafters which have the potential to ruin this game So just continue to stick your heads in the sand.....

The most helpful soloution I have heard is the abjurations idea. Make this the norm for drops from EG content, and that way crafters could still be useful w/o being OP. And you still have to do the dungeons to get the drops to complete the item. Have it work like in XI where non-crafters can just use the abjuration on the cursed item. However, the cursed items themselves dont need to be overly hard to make or use insane rare items, then the system will start breaking down and become too complicated if anything else is added. The only other thing I'd add is because the uncursed item was originally crafted, it should be able to be able to receive 1 or more melds. Leaving that last portion up to the player on whether or not they should risk it. As for hard mode dungeons, just make them require +1 abjurations and +1 cursed items. (Bind on creation of course) Its not what I'd love, but it is something I can get behind.

Who knows maybe SE has something like this in mind, but if they continue with the way it currently is .....
I'm just gonna favorite this page, so I can have it ready with my "I told you so" post when 2.0 implodes. And Im done with this thread, may you all live in interesting times.

[Hyrist]

Ah, the pattented "OH I'm going to save this to scream "I told you so" the instant FFXIV 2.0 comes out and isn't a wowkiller, cause, you know, I'm a bitter person like that."

Hey buddy, why not stop focusing on the "I" and put a little E-asy going in there and you'll become a Better person, eh?

People disagreeing with you is not the end of the world, nor the end of Eorza, for that matter. There's a big giant flaming ball of something up in the sky that threatens it already, and it sure ain't made of opinions.

[Payadopa]

The discussion is over when OP said triple meld isnt rare, let alone quad meld, those are prolly close to non existent.

Yeah, I stopped reading there to be honest.

[Brannigan]

The biggest problem with making crafted stuff so good is that you can get it solo. Like even the easiest group content we have requires more thought and skill than triple melding anything.