when will this lazy devs fix the alliance roulette?

[Toutatis]

It's so funny that people just see FFXIV as a chore game to blast through. Any inconvenience is a "waste of time". What does that say about the quality of the game? This is the same mindset as that other MMO--you know, the one that turned into a toxic cesspit. No wonder devs are dumbing everything down. People want the least amount of content possible so they can log off and resume their other games.

And that’s how we end up with regular dungeons that are just a single tunnel with 2-3 sets of adds that are all pretty much the same in between bosses, normal raids that have lost their environments and that are just a single square or circle arena with a boss in the middle that nothing really differentiates from trials except that they have a savage mode instead of an extreme one.

[Aldath]

People want the least amount of content possible so they can log off and resume their other games.

I'll correct that for you: people want the least amount of content possible so they can afk in Limsa or take screenshots for their 5 TB image folder while also looking for people with Mare. If a Lala with heterochromia and Lolita fashion didn't give you that away Idk what else will do.

And this is coming from a Miqo.

[strawberrycake]

The easy fix is making All the Alliance raids being unlocked and completed mandatory to even access the roulette and making it so that not having lvl appropriate gear on blocks you from queueing, as welll as moving Crystal tower to MSQ and turning them into 4 Mans similar to the old MSQ runs. Literally fixes the entire problem.

They don't wanna do it ofc because [Insert Random Vague Reason here]

[Saraide]

It's so funny that people just see FFXIV as a chore game to blast through. Any inconvenience is a "waste of time". What does that say about the quality of the game? This is the same mindset as that other MMO--you know, the one that turned into a toxic cesspit. No wonder devs are dumbing everything down. People want the least amount of content possible so they can log off and resume their other games.

Oh are you finally dropping the bit?

[Erzaa]

snip

Fair point. And yes, I might've been hyperbolic. I'm more inclined to agree with Jeeqbit's comment, like I said.

But, all these proposed solutions are being thrown around as various ways of fixing the game. Some innocent QoL, others massive changes to the game.

As in the case of someone making an innocent request for additional hotbars. SE adding more optional hotbars for some players who'd like them wouldn't damage the game in any way. Yet, the poster was inundated with naysayers telling them to be more efficient and that they're doing it wrong. I don't need or care about more optional hotbars, but why exactly attack the poster for asking for something so innocent?

How about the currently 40 pages of just buy gear off the MB regarding the AR? A couple of extra conditions that wouldn't change anything about how the roulette works right now, being attacked with, "...you're playing the game wrong".

Here's the issue with the community. It's not a unified entity, but it also can't even agree on what a solution would be. In cases where a fix wouldn't even hurt the majority of the playerbase, they'll jump in and drown out the posters asking for small innocent changes. In much bigger changes, it becomes a pool of who's louder about how the change should be implemented, listed in one to two paragraphs, without any consideration about said downsides and how to alleviate them. Everyone thinks they have the right solution to a problem, until the solution is implemented and things become worse.

If the community as a whole could discuss things civil, take all the ideas, consider each of them and their merits, list their potential negatives and provide them all as player feedback and then allow the devs to implement the one that serves best, that's worthwhile.

But that's not what's happening. Players come up with solutions only from their point of view, those get implemented if they scream loud enough, then a new set of players who were never involved before get hit with problems, they suggest different solutions only from their side if they scream loud enough, and that's how we keep getting into these situations.

No solution is going to perfect for all the things all the time. If we're going to give feedback, it needs to be considered from all angles and with eyes open to expected consequences.

But if we're unwilling to do that, consider all of the playerbase as a whole and they're different ways of playing the game, then yes I'd rather SE not take feedback at all.

[Jeeqbit]

normal raids that have lost their environments and that are just a single square or circle arena with a boss in the middle that nothing really differentiates from trials

For raids, it wasn't really the community causing arenas to be a square or a circle. It was a design decision because it allows mechanics to be spread evenly and not have terrain issues like Twintania. It also allows them to be spread evenly. A similar issue was recently addressed in frontline PvP where some teams had an advantage based on the terrain so it was made into more of a triangle.

But I think they can do it the way they did it in P7 or P10.

I just would like it to make sense why it's a circle or square. For example, having rubble around it that isn't a square, but the invisible wall just being a square, or being a town center or a temple.

[Toutatis]

For raids, it wasn't really the community causing arenas to be a square or a circle. It was a design decision because it allows mechanics to be spread evenly and not have terrain issues like Twintania. It also allows them to be spread evenly. A similar issue was recently addressed in frontline PvP where some teams had an advantage based on the terrain so it was made into more of a triangle.

But I think they can do it the way they did it in P7 or P10.

I just would like it to make sense why it's a circle or square. For example, having rubble around it that isn't a square, but the invisible wall just being a square, or being a town center or a temple.

It’s not a matter of rubble or uneven terrain. It wasn’t just a teleportation to a boss standing in an arena. There were actual environments to interact with before getting to the boss. Even the Alexander raids, you have the impression of visiting the inside and have a few encounters. Nowadays it’s just a nondescript arena with a decor that more than often has little relevance and could be anything.

[PyurBlue]

As in the case of someone making an innocent request for additional hotbars. SE adding more optional hotbars for some players who'd like them wouldn't damage the game in any way. Yet, the poster was inundated with naysayers telling them to be more efficient and that they're doing it wrong. I don't need or care about more optional hotbars, but why exactly attack the poster for asking for something so innocent?

I don't know why anyone would. It's pretty simple to look at something and ask yourself if it will negatively impact you. If it does, you can provide your own PoV and suggestions. If it doesn't, there isn't much reason to say anything.

I agree with you that here is a problem here, but I also have what I consider a straightforward solution, that being to ignore posts without substance. If someone is opposed to something just for the sake of opposition, there probably isn't much to gain from their feedback. Some people are capable of discussing things rationally and I don't think they should be sidelined because of the people who can't.

Here's the issue with the community. It's not a unified entity, but it also can't even agree on what a solution would be. In cases where a fix wouldn't even hurt the majority of the playerbase, they'll jump in and drown out the posters asking for small innocent changes. In much bigger changes, it becomes a pool of who's louder about how the change should be implemented, listed in one to two paragraphs, without any consideration about said downsides and how to alleviate them. Everyone thinks they have the right solution to a problem, until the solution is implemented and things become worse.

If the community as a whole could discuss things civil, take all the ideas, consider each of them and their merits, list their potential negatives and provide them all as player feedback and then allow the devs to implement the one that serves best, that's worthwhile.

Very good points, but I think SE has to take some blame here due to how infrequently they respond to players. I think if we saw responses from them more often, people would be a little less competitive. It's going to have to be a balancing act of course. SE can't live on the forums and ignore actually working on the game, and even if they were more active on the forum or something, some people would still complain, but I think two way communication is lacking right now.

Instead of:

Problem > Complaints > SE picks a solution > Patch

I'd rather see something more like

Problem > Discussion > SE's feedback on the discussion > Refinement of solutions > SE lists what is most plausible out of what the community is suggesting > Community Consensus > Patch

But that's not what's happening. Players come up with solutions only from their point of view, those get implemented if they scream loud enough, then a new set of players who were never involved before get hit with problems, they suggest different solutions only from their side if they scream loud enough, and that's how we keep getting into these situations.

No solution is going to perfect for all the things all the time. If we're going to give feedback, it needs to be considered from all angles and with eyes open to expected consequences.

Absolutely. Especially the last part. And it's not even that hard to do on an individual level despite there being many people who pretend it is. I don't know how to get more people to approach discussion this way, but I think that the people willing to talk and listen should be the ones SE listens to the most.

[Jeeqbit]

Even the Alexander raids, you have the impression of visiting the inside and have a few encounters. Nowadays it’s just a nondescript arena with a decor that more than often has little relevance and could be anything.

In alex, they got rid of the trash for savage because it was not going to threaten savage raiders, other than door bosses. What I noticed them do in Omega was to put the trash packs in a solo duty and that way you only do them once. It's a way of stopping the repetition so you can continue trying to beat the real boss.

If you have the sort of raids that involve going a long way then they last longer and make you feel guilty for leaving after the first boss was defeated and this game has established a system where a dungeon rarely takes longer than 16-30 minutes and a trial/raid pull rarely takes much more than 10 minutes, which gives you the opportunity to stop any time without disrupting the raid a lot.

But we do have some examples now of what would happen if they added this sort of interaction and trash back into raids, because it's in variant and criterion dungeons. While it is fun, it creates the issue of having to defeat the prior bosses every time to get to the one you really want to learn. At least in criterion you only need 4 players to be good enough to get through them quickly, rather than 8 people, but it could still create a situation where after beating the first boss, you feel guilty for needing to leave.

Oh and the one savage raid we have this in each tier, the last floor, creates that guilt as well. All the work to get through the first phase so that the second phase can be practiced and then someone has to leave.

[DPZ2]

We've been waiting for the devs to do a lot of things, citizen. Sometimes feedback sent to the devs will just go into one ear and out the other.

It goes through those ears faster when thread titles use the words "lazy devs".