when will this lazy devs fix the alliance roulette?

[Jeeqbit]

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

So much this (all the things listed).

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

I agree that most of the time, people throw out self-centered hot takes in this community when what is needed is to take into account all sides and come up with a solution that works for everyone and addresses all concerns.

I don't think they should ignore people's feedback, because it is important to listen, it is just up to the people running an MMORPG to know which feedback to ignore, which feedback to listen to and when to come up with their own solutions because all of the solutions presented by the community cause another problem somewhere else.

Yoshi-P mentioned quite recently how it is his job to figure out what to listen to and what not to and I agree completely. That has to be one of the hardest parts of doing his job, because most other people who manage an MMORPG didn't exactly see success and often when someone takes over a successful MMORPG, it goes downhill.

In his position, you either know what is good feedback or you don't and the success of the game depends on it.

[Saraide]

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

Community complains about balance of jobs, SE balances jobs, homogenising them in the process, community complains about homogenisation.

Community complains about difficulty spikes in MSQ, SE makes MSQ easy and more approachable, community complains about braindead easy MSQ.

Community complains about CT raids and ilvl cheese, SE institutes ilvl lock (hurting other players in the process, but that's besides the point), community still complains about CT popping (as if we didn't know this was already going to happen).

Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new players to get used to the later 24 man raids, while also increasing the chance that players might not even unlock them. Also, will have the consequence of moving the most common raid popping up to Void Ark.

Meanwhile, a poster asks for something completely innocent and inconsequential, such as more hotbars, the entire community jumps down their throat, telling them they're not being efficient and playing the game wrong.

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

Have you ever considered that the community is not a hive mind?

[Erzaa]

Have you ever considered that the community is not a hive mind?

Of course I know this. And maybe my last line was hyperbolic. Jeeqbit is probably more right.

But feedback needs to be considered carefully, well thought out, how it will impact everyone, before it's given and implemented.

Throwing out statements like CT should be a 4 man or whatever, helps nobody.

There was a time when ARR dungeons had multiple rooms, I remember getting laughed at my first time when I asked to explore it.

Castrum used to feel like an actual assault on a base, now it's just another by the numbers dungeon.

Stuff like that comes about and diminishes the good parts of the game.

[Darkobra]

Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new players to get used to the later 24 man raids, while also increasing the chance that players might not even unlock them. Also, will have the consequence of moving the most common raid popping up to Void Ark.

I'd be with you on that if this was the OLD Crystal Tower, where we had to actually DO mechanics. Now everything is just burst and be done.

I'm assuming you don't read patch notes? All alliance raids except the crystal tower series got an exp and tome increase with the higher the level the more the increase..

I'm level 90 and lol tomes that are capped all the time. I read the patch notes. So let me ask you again. What could I possibly gain from choosing to run a level 70 raid?

I'm assuming you saw my level? It's right there, under my name.

[Erzaa]

I'd be with you on that if this was the OLD Crystal Tower, where we had to actually DO mechanics. Now everything is just burst and be done.



I'm level 90 and lol tomes that are capped all the time. I read the patch notes. So let me ask you again. What could I possibly gain from choosing to run a level 70 raid?

I'm assuming you saw my level? It's right there, under my name.

Except it isn't. Maybe to you it is now, but that's just not true.

I died over and over in WoD my first and second and third time. The eyeball monster thingy with the floor colours and Doom and Cerberus with it's A and B and C mechanics are unique for first timers. They serve a purpose.

Even the platform of four, as annoying as it can be at times for people to listen, serves a purpose. I think I've only ever seen 1 tank in that step, stand in the middle and pull the mobs into range of the casters to kill, while the melee focus down the big thingy.

And people still die to Meteor all the time, and people still die to the last boss when they greed all the time. All those serve as lessons.

[Poporito_Popoto]

What could I possibly gain from choosing to run a level 70 raid?

For the same reason you'd run a level 80 or 90 raid...glam/minions/orchestrion rolls.

[Aldath]

snip

I would be inclined to agree with you, if it wasn't because SE addresses feedback with the grace and delicacy of a sledgehammer hitting a china vase.
Things are hard? Make them too easy. No one does Variant/Criterion? Make it Savage. Class balance? Make it an the same. It's like a monkey's paw, and that's why I would duct tape anyone who complains about how gearing works nowadays. The community asked for improvements, not for polar opposites, this creating new issues.

We are clients, this is a service, we have the right to complain and want better;asking people to just accept things is consumerism.

How long did it take SE to address the Endsinger complains? A little over a year, and all it took was defaulting to a setting that's already in game plus stat adjustments during the second phase. Why haven't they done the same for older content? Are you aware we have one of the worst new player experiences of any AAA MMO due to the false impressions that ARR questing and difficulty give to people? Why do you think nowadays you still have to tell sprouts things get good on HW?

[PyurBlue]

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

The playerbase isn't a single unified entity. Treating it like one is a good way to fail.

To be fair on SE, they only have finite resources, so compromise or aiming for good enough is all they can do. However in other cases it makes more sense to separate people into groups and handle them independently.

All of that is more in general than in the specific case of the alliance raid, I think this issue is more about a lack of communication. The problems with ilvl lock were pointed out early, but they were never acknolwedged by SE as far as I know. Some two way communication could have helped in getting more varied feedback or by providing information on SE's limitations so that players could give more relevant feedback.

Saying that feedback should be ignored is pretty short sighted. I'd rather fix things than just throw them out completely for being imperfect.

[Erzaa]

snip

Fair point. And yes, I might've been hyperbolic. I'm more inclined to agree with Jeeqbit's comment, like I said.

But, all these proposed solutions are being thrown around as various ways of fixing the game. Some innocent QoL, others massive changes to the game.

As in the case of someone making an innocent request for additional hotbars. SE adding more optional hotbars for some players who'd like them wouldn't damage the game in any way. Yet, the poster was inundated with naysayers telling them to be more efficient and that they're doing it wrong. I don't need or care about more optional hotbars, but why exactly attack the poster for asking for something so innocent?

How about the currently 40 pages of just buy gear off the MB regarding the AR? A couple of extra conditions that wouldn't change anything about how the roulette works right now, being attacked with, "...you're playing the game wrong".

Here's the issue with the community. It's not a unified entity, but it also can't even agree on what a solution would be. In cases where a fix wouldn't even hurt the majority of the playerbase, they'll jump in and drown out the posters asking for small innocent changes. In much bigger changes, it becomes a pool of who's louder about how the change should be implemented, listed in one to two paragraphs, without any consideration about said downsides and how to alleviate them. Everyone thinks they have the right solution to a problem, until the solution is implemented and things become worse.

If the community as a whole could discuss things civil, take all the ideas, consider each of them and their merits, list their potential negatives and provide them all as player feedback and then allow the devs to implement the one that serves best, that's worthwhile.

But that's not what's happening. Players come up with solutions only from their point of view, those get implemented if they scream loud enough, then a new set of players who were never involved before get hit with problems, they suggest different solutions only from their side if they scream loud enough, and that's how we keep getting into these situations.

No solution is going to perfect for all the things all the time. If we're going to give feedback, it needs to be considered from all angles and with eyes open to expected consequences.

But if we're unwilling to do that, consider all of the playerbase as a whole and they're different ways of playing the game, then yes I'd rather SE not take feedback at all.

[samsaraSaber]

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

Community complains about balance of jobs, SE balances jobs, homogenising them in the process, community complains about homogenisation.

Community complains about difficulty spikes in MSQ, SE makes MSQ easy and more approachable, community complains about braindead easy MSQ.

Community complains about CT raids and ilvl cheese, SE institutes ilvl lock (hurting other players in the process, but that's besides the point), community still complains about CT popping (as if we didn't know this was already going to happen).

Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new players to get used to the later 24 man raids, while also increasing the chance that players might not even unlock them. Also, will have the consequence of moving the most common raid popping up to Void Ark.

Meanwhile, a poster asks for something completely innocent and inconsequential, such as more hotbars, the entire community jumps down their throat, telling them they're not being efficient and playing the game wrong.

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

maube each time the devs FAIL at doing any fix for 5 years or more? BALANCE not kill. balance not take any skills that is fun to use.