The "tenacity" Problem (other melds aswell)

[ICountFrom0]

And yet, it has no effect on "getting into tanking" in any other place in the entire game.

There is no barrier to entry in tanking caused by my suggestion.

It just makes ultimates harder, a thing that SHOULD be the hardest possible thing in the game.

If it can be made harder, it should be, such is the nature of the task.

So no, don't try to call me out for a suggestion as if it would make all tanks tasks everywhere in the game harder.

By the time you are at ultimates, you are not "getting into tanking", that's a horrible way to represent things. You are a brave and mighty hero, one that simply has to keep the OLD set, and get the new set, and know when to swap between them. As you can't get two perfect sets. Heck, they might even bring back the PVP sets, and let you get slightly different stats of the same ilvl.

[Cabalabob]

And yet, it has no effect on "getting into tanking" in any other place in the entire game.

There is no barrier to entry in tanking caused by my suggestion.

It just makes ultimates harder, a thing that SHOULD be the hardest possible thing in the game.

If it can be made harder, it should be, such is the nature of the task.

So no, don't try to call me out for a suggestion as if it would make all tanks tasks everywhere in the game harder.

By the time you are at ultimates, you are not "getting into tanking", that's a horrible way to represent things. You are a brave and mighty hero, one that simply has to keep the OLD set, and get the new set, and know when to swap between them. As you can't get two perfect sets. Heck, they might even bring back the PVP sets, and let you get slightly different stats of the same ilvl.

Your suggestion would absolutely make tanks lives harder in the rest of the game as it would require an overhaul to the gear system to allow gear swapping which would then have a trickle down effect to the rest of the game. You think if they added gear swapping to the game that people would only use it in one fight? No you’ll see it becoming mandatory in extreme and savage to have a tenacity set or kick. This would then lead to the game having to be balanced around this new defensive power tanks have access to or it would trivialise all content outside of that one ultimate and now your suggestion has just become a glorified tank stance that requires you to farm an entire second gearset… sounds fun.

If they were to make an ultimate fight where the boss simply hits so hard that a tenacity build is required then it would only be needed in that one fight, but that’s not what you suggested and that still sounds like a terrible way to make tenacity “useful”.

[Mikey_R]

It just makes ultimates harder, a thing that SHOULD be the hardest possible thing in the game.

If it can be made harder, it should be, such is the nature of the task.

Ultimates should be hard in execution, not in gear acquisition, which again, why does a tank need to prepare 2 sets of gear when a healer or DPS only has to prepare 1, how is that fair.

You're going through with your static, getting gear, your healers and DPS are all geared, but your tanks still need another 4+ weeks to get the gear, just because you need to effectively get 2 sets of gear, tome and savage.

So, again, by this very fact, this would make getting into Ultimate fights take longer and, depending on your definition, harder to meet the requirements. Unless you have a similar idea for both healers and DPS, it just is not a good solution.

[ICountFrom0]

I stand and disagree, nobody wants a tank that does less damage.
It's why DPS sets are the default.

It would only come into play in the ultimate where it comes into play, at least in my example where that's the only place they ever do it.

If you picture a world where they do it in regular dungeons, that's a problem in the world YOU are inventing, not the one I suggested.

[ICountFrom0]

Your acting like there's an ability to get a second set of the unique gear.
There isn't.
You'd meld the old set one way, and the new set the other way.

Wouldn't take a day longer.


And, is NOT, as you said, "making it harder to get into tanking" just "longer to do ultimates" even if it DID take longer in my example, but it won't.

[Marxam]

Probably should have made tenacity a tank exclusive stat with direct hit and piety being for DPS and healers respectively. Fact of the matter is that tenacity in its current form is just another throwaway stat akin to parry and accuracy. It's effects are so weak while the devs are afraid to buff it. Imo tank defensive cds just need their potencies cut by like 40-50% and adding tenacity will revert it back to it "max" potency and put a disclaimer on the bottom of each tool tip that tenacity will increase the potency of this skill.

For example Rampart and Sentinel are 10% and 15% base but every 100 tenacity you get 1-2% added to that till they hit their cap of 20% and 30% respectively. It would solve the power creep, low raidwide dmg (as a result of 2 min meta) and necessitate healers in groups again as they now have to work a bit harder since the tanks have effectively a weaker tool kit. It would also make gearing more simpler as baseline, all gear can be crit/det/sks/sps and each role will have to meld their role exclusive stats into it. They already do this to an extent with multiple extreme/savage weapons literally being only crit/det/dhc.

The same logic can be applied to healers and piety while DPS keep direct hit as it currently is as they are the ones that should be focusing on damage in the first place.

[Cabalabob]

Probably should have made tenacity a tank exclusive stat with direct hit and piety being for DPS and healers respectively. Fact of the matter is that tenacity in its current form is just another throwaway stat akin to parry and accuracy.

Tenacity replaced parry on our gear so it was exclusively on tank gear already, which made it easy to lock it to tanks, piety was reworked from a primary stat to a secondary stat and it was only put on healer gear so it was easy to lock to healers, but direct hit replaced accuracy which was on everyone’s gear and actually was primarily used by tanks since accuracy requirements were higher from the front.

So rather than do the work of replacing accuracy with another stat on every piece of gear from ARR and HW the devs decided simply to not lock direct hit to dps and just make it so our base direct hit value was 0% and not put any on tank and healer gear going forward. This of course was short sighted and just made direct hit the absolute best meld we can have since we don’t get any from other sources making it a big dps increase.

[Connor]

Kinda high jacking the thread but I also wish they’d make Piety actually useful. I always meld it since I like the idea of having extra MP, but everytime I do I just feel dirty lol.

No stat should ever exist that basically boils down to ‘I’m literally making myself a detriment by melding this materia instead of direct/critical hit’ lol

[Rithy255]

Kinda high jacking the thread but I also wish they’d make Piety actually useful. I always meld it since I like the idea of having extra MP, but everytime I do I just feel dirty lol.

No stat should ever exist that basically boils down to ‘I’m literally making myself a detriment by melding this materia instead of direct/critical hit’ lol

Oh I agree hence i mentioned Piety, maybe my approach of buffing the "non" dps aspects of these melds is the wrong way to go about things in current design, But if tanks/healers didn't have a abundance of healing, defensives, mitigations, shields (Esp OCGD abilities on healers) maybe having more stronger defensive value and healing value would actually save you a few gcds which could add make that DPS dependence.

I actually think the "right" solution might be just to reduce the amount of Damage+ melds for tanks/healers, so they can actually meld stats that have a impact on your actual role instead of just boring more crit chance ect. (Not to say tanks and healers shouldn't be contributing DPS, but I wish they actually got more to do outside of that for the majority of time as it stands tanks/healers just are boring dps with some support/utility that is required... sometimes)

I think the main issue is FF14 just isn't built currently for any "customization" or "different builds" which kind of hurts The replay value of the game... Even playing a "different Job" which used to be argued that it brings something new to the table barely stands anymore especially again with tanks/healers, if you know one you know 80% of the others.

I'm honestly thinking damage needs to be less predictable, healing needs to be more important on healers, tanks need more to do other then kitchen sink and tank swap (I actually like the self healing and party protection abilities but they need to actually make it more important to time defensives with autos.), right now the current design just makes Tanks/healers into boring DPS, Sort of like the game isn't even designed for the trinity system.

[Sylvain]

Well, it's rather simple, you need to make it so that having a high tenacity tank grants more DPS than a low tenacity tank

- Increase the bonus or make it affect the defensive tool of the tank.
- Make boss deal much more damage with their Auto Attack
- Make boss attack both tank so that one tank doesn't have a useless stat.

If the difference between a tank with loads of tenacity and a tank without, is more Rdps because the healer didn't spend 20 gcd spamming CureII on you, people would use it.