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  1. #31
    Player
    MikoRemi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    195
    Character
    Miko Remi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rithy255 View Post
    Oblation isn't a lot to be honest, the difference is you don't give up damage using oblation, theirs no cost with it so its always a upside.
    Just to roll off of this, at 917 tenacity you get about 2.7% damage and mitigation increase. Conversely at just 868 Direct Hit, you get a 13.5% chance to do 25% more damage which works well with Crit since they changed it awhile back to make DH work off of stuff like Infuriate and Inner Release. Also 1861 Determination gives you an innate 10.8% increase. Can ignore crit in this equation for now since its around 2.1k for me, but that's what people mean by Tenacity not scaling all that well. You'd have to sacrifice a whole lot of Crit/DH/Det to start stacking up Tenacity...just to reach 8%.

    Also as Rithy pointed out, we already have such a strong kit with things like Rampart built into tanks innately. Damage is king, it's just tricky on improving Tenacity since the only way it could be good is if it did enough damage to replace one of the big three. I've seen all the Mastery talks on the thread but I doubt the devs will do it simply because people are already lazy about materia in general let alone caring about deep systems. The guard rails are unfortunately remaining up with just; "Use this for more damage lol". Personally though, I'd love for materia and substats in general to feel less tacked on.
    (0)
    *Job effectiveness will vary depending on player skill

  2. #32
    Player
    Arohk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,332
    Character
    Lucretia Ryusagi
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valknut View Post
    I find it odd that everyone is saying 8% isnt a lot. Yet every other job is saying Oblation.. Is more mitigation then the self healing that other jobs have.

    You guys are killing me. Yes 800 dmg off a 10k attack isnt a lot. 8% less damage in every dungeon pull I do, is a lot specially as a DRK player.
    Your Materia doesnt work in Dungeons because of level synch, so melding Tenacity is completly pointless.
    (1)

  3. #33
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Arohk View Post
    Your Materia doesnt work in Dungeons because of level synch, so melding Tenacity is completly pointless.
    Technically melding anything is completely pointless.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    ICountFrom0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1,526
    Character
    Zedlizvez Mikasch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Okay, picture this.

    An ultimate fight where the tanks have to go in with two sets of equipment, one melded for tenancity and defence, and without it they won't survive the tank buster, the other is DPS for when they are the off tank, so the tank swap macro has an equipment swap in it too.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    Absurdity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,046
    Character
    Tiana Vestoria
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    Okay, picture this.

    An ultimate fight where the tanks have to go in with two sets of equipment, one melded for tenancity and defence, and without it they won't survive the tank buster, the other is DPS for when they are the off tank, so the tank swap macro has an equipment swap in it too.
    That would require you to have multiple pieces of the same item, because there's bound to be some overlap between defense and dps. Now I'd be all for the ability to have mutiple "meld presets" for the same piece of gear.

    But this also means tenacity is now mandatory every time you're tanking, and having a stat be mandatory kinda defeats the purpose of having a choice of substats in the first place...which is already an issue.
    The same could basically be achieved by scrapping substats altogether and instead giving stances back to tanks, your "main tank" stance increasing defense and your "off tank stance" increasing your dps.
    (2)

  6. #36
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    Okay, picture this.

    An ultimate fight where the tanks have to go in with two sets of equipment, one melded for tenancity and defence, and without it they won't survive the tank buster, the other is DPS for when they are the off tank, so the tank swap macro has an equipment swap in it too.
    It's a bit unfair if only tanks have to swap gear pieces mid combat though (not that you can do that at the moment), so why are you making tanking harder? Or, at the very least, harder to get into?
    (3)

  7. #37
    Player
    ICountFrom0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1,526
    Character
    Zedlizvez Mikasch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    why are you making tanking harder? Or, at the very least, harder to get into?
    Hint, if it's a suggestion for "ULTIMATES" your not "getting into" at that point.
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    Hint, if it's a suggestion for "ULTIMATES" your not "getting into" at that point.
    Healers and DPS have one set to complete, Tanks have up to 2. Assuming gear pieces overlap, that doesn't necessarily mean the melds will be right and since you cannot have 2 items of the same name and you cannot swap out meld, it just increases the chance you will have 2 full sets of gear.

    So yes, harder to get into compared to a DPS or healer who only require 1 set.
    (2)

  9. #39
    Player
    ICountFrom0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1,526
    Character
    Zedlizvez Mikasch
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    And yet, it has no effect on "getting into tanking" in any other place in the entire game.

    There is no barrier to entry in tanking caused by my suggestion.

    It just makes ultimates harder, a thing that SHOULD be the hardest possible thing in the game.

    If it can be made harder, it should be, such is the nature of the task.

    So no, don't try to call me out for a suggestion as if it would make all tanks tasks everywhere in the game harder.

    By the time you are at ultimates, you are not "getting into tanking", that's a horrible way to represent things. You are a brave and mighty hero, one that simply has to keep the OLD set, and get the new set, and know when to swap between them. As you can't get two perfect sets. Heck, they might even bring back the PVP sets, and let you get slightly different stats of the same ilvl.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    Cabalabob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,671
    Character
    Gunsa Cabalabob
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    And yet, it has no effect on "getting into tanking" in any other place in the entire game.

    There is no barrier to entry in tanking caused by my suggestion.

    It just makes ultimates harder, a thing that SHOULD be the hardest possible thing in the game.

    If it can be made harder, it should be, such is the nature of the task.

    So no, don't try to call me out for a suggestion as if it would make all tanks tasks everywhere in the game harder.

    By the time you are at ultimates, you are not "getting into tanking", that's a horrible way to represent things. You are a brave and mighty hero, one that simply has to keep the OLD set, and get the new set, and know when to swap between them. As you can't get two perfect sets. Heck, they might even bring back the PVP sets, and let you get slightly different stats of the same ilvl.
    Your suggestion would absolutely make tanks lives harder in the rest of the game as it would require an overhaul to the gear system to allow gear swapping which would then have a trickle down effect to the rest of the game. You think if they added gear swapping to the game that people would only use it in one fight? No you’ll see it becoming mandatory in extreme and savage to have a tenacity set or kick. This would then lead to the game having to be balanced around this new defensive power tanks have access to or it would trivialise all content outside of that one ultimate and now your suggestion has just become a glorified tank stance that requires you to farm an entire second gearset… sounds fun.

    If they were to make an ultimate fight where the boss simply hits so hard that a tenacity build is required then it would only be needed in that one fight, but that’s not what you suggested and that still sounds like a terrible way to make tenacity “useful”.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilthas View Post
    The anonymity of the internet is what leads people to become jerks online.

    You could make a game where all you did was run through fields of flowers holding hands and you'd still get a guy telling you you're doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcshiggs View Post
    Everyone knows you skip through fields of flowers holding hands, running noobs need to go back to WoW.

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