The "tenacity" Problem (other melds aswell)

[Valknut]

Someone mentioned early on in EW that melding an gearing tenacity was around 8% less damage taken. As a low end content player, that seemed like a significant amount and I have geared that way ever since.

Has it ever helped me? No idea

Would DPS Materia have ever helped me get faster clears? Very likely not in PUGS

Would be nice to see the difference of Direct hit to Tenacity in the main post. Best case senario and all. Just so us less HC players could see what the big difference is.

[Rithy255]

In my eyes the issue is that there’s just too many dps increasing stats. You can only meld so much on to your gear and we have 3 damage stats in crit, DH and det. So unless you’re overmelding crafted gear and your job has no need for skill/spell speed you simply have no room for stats like tenacity and piety.

I think they need to reduce offensive stats down to one stat, say, lose crit and DH and just have determination. Then det can be the capped stat on the BIS pieces and it leaves you with room to play around with defensive stats for the secondary ones and melds.

I actually think this is a decent take, like that's my issue with turning tenacity into another "damage+" stat It does nothing to solve the issue with the lack of allocating stats/melds to a class, It's not great that we're in a game where tanks would rather meld DPS+ instead of melding stuff to make your job of the "tank" be more stronger, but I don't think that would be fixed just by the nature of DPS checks in general.

Honestly Crit/DH are boring stats that just increase RNG big hits, which too me I dislike RNG anyway (unless it serves a purpose like proc gameplay which is fun, but flat big numbers randomly is not), That would make room for maybe more defensive stats on tanks, such as melds that could increase HP, Increase defensive cooldowns, sustain ect. Skill/spell speed are stats are really think are cool in concept but only get used on certain classes... personally I'd love to make my PLD fast lol, but spell speed doesn't even synch so that's epic

[Espon]

Someone mentioned early on in EW that melding an gearing tenacity was around 8% less damage taken. As a low end content player, that seemed like a significant amount and I have geared that way ever since.

Has it ever helped me? No idea

Would DPS Materia have ever helped me get faster clears? Very likely not in PUGS

Would be nice to see the difference of Direct hit to Tenacity in the main post. Best case senario and all. Just so us less HC players could see what the big difference is.

8% really isn't that significant if you aren't taking much damage to begin with. Whether an enemy hits you for 10,000 damage or 9,200 damage, the difference is meaningless if you're still nowhere close to dying and the healer can still heal you to full in one oGCD.

I don't consider myself a hardcore player as I don't do Savage content, but I still find defensive stats to be completely useless and will immediately pull wall-to-wall the first time I step into a new dungeon.

[Absurdity]

Someone mentioned early on in EW that melding an gearing tenacity was around 8% less damage taken. As a low end content player, that seemed like a significant amount and I have geared that way ever since.

Has it ever helped me? No idea

Would DPS Materia have ever helped me get faster clears? Very likely not in PUGS

Would be nice to see the difference of Direct hit to Tenacity in the main post. Best case senario and all. Just so us less HC players could see what the big difference is.

8% might be significant if this were a different mmo, one where tanks would take constant damage and healing became a battle of attrition, alas that is not a thing in XIV.
And those 8% require a massive investment into Tenacity to the point of neglecting every other substat.

Unfortunately CBU3 refuses to give us accurate % values for stats in the actual game, so all I can do is link you to Akhmorning for info on stat scaling and % values.
https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-s...stats-overview

[ICountFrom0]

I've got it, I"VE GOT IT.

A use for a tenacity build.

Warrior, solo, doing 8 person level 90 maps.

You get the damage low enough for the build in regen of the warrior to keep them alive. The kills take longer, but since your alive, your fine.

[mallleable]

In my mind, stats like tenacity, and piety should make you better at your role, and not be damage related -- there are already three stats that do that. I often wonder what it would be like if stats like tenacity and piety reduced the cooldowns of defensive, and healing abilities or something along those lines.

[Absurdity]

In my mind, stats like tenacity, and piety should make you better at your role, and not be damage related -- there are already three stats that do that. I often wonder what it would be like if stats like tenacity and piety reduced the cooldowns of defensive, and healing abilities or something along those lines.

They would either be just as useless as they currently are or mandatory.

Since fights are entirely scripted you know exactly when tank busters are going to happen, so you'll either get scenario
A: Tank busters happen roughly every 60-90 seconds, meaning you will always have enough defensive cooldowns available by default, that's the scenario we currently have, making the "new" Tenacity completely pointless.
or
B: Tank busters happen so often that will need to invest into Tenacity to reduce your cooldowns to the point where you are able to mitigate each buster, making the stat mandatory or you'll simply kiss the floor.

The problem with non-damage substats is that they share the same pool as damage substats, if you invest into Tenacity it consequently means you're losing that amount from a damage-related substat.
So if fights then do not require the defensive substat it means your investment is useless, because the other tank who invested into a damage stat can perform the job of "not dying" just as well but also contributes more to killing the boss.

[Valknut]

I find it odd that everyone is saying 8% isnt a lot. Yet every other job is saying Oblation.. Is more mitigation then the self healing that other jobs have.

You guys are killing me. Yes 800 dmg off a 10k attack isnt a lot. 8% less damage in every dungeon pull I do, is a lot specially as a DRK player.

[MikoRemi]

I find it odd that everyone is saying 8% isnt a lot. Yet every other job is saying Oblation.. Is more mitigation then the self healing that other jobs have.

You guys are killing me. Yes 800 dmg off a 10k attack isnt a lot. 8% less damage in every dungeon pull I do, is a lot specially as a DRK player.

It's mostly just the 8% boost to defenses isn't enough to circumvent the loss in damage which is not only higher due to how much Tenacity needed to reach that point, but in a game all about damage, it's the only thing that tends to matter by the end of the day, especially for a DRK player. Absurdity gave a good link but you can sniff around the Balance as well since there's a lot of math wizards roaming about. Oblation at least only requires you hit a certain level rather than your limited substat melding anyhow.

[Rithy255]

I find it odd that everyone is saying 8% isnt a lot. Yet every other job is saying Oblation.. Is more mitigation then the self healing that other jobs have.

You guys are killing me. Yes 800 dmg off a 10k attack isnt a lot. 8% less damage in every dungeon pull I do, is a lot specially as a DRK player.

Oblation isn't a lot to be honest, the difference is you don't give up damage using oblation, theirs no cost with it so its always a upside. I actually think Oblation works better for raid mitigations because self healing isn't needed, IF autos hit harder and all that self sustain would actually be really helpful (a lot more then oblation, if you could still survive busters as DRK, which TBN/DM/Shadow wall all really good for kitchen sink design, you barely need oblation for that) but fights are just not designed like that currently.

8% passively means less if a tank already has tons of stronger mitigation skills for the most important mechs (tank busters) while autos are just a joke currently, you're never going to save healer gcds.