Mentor reform megathread

[Katish]

...

I will answer these individually based on my own opinions and concerns.
1: Veteran doesn't really get the point across to what "Mentor" is by definition and would confuse people for "someone who has just been playing a very long time", which isn't what mentorship is about. I'd equate mentorship as more volunteer work that you do after you get the basic concepts and can pass them on to new players.
2: Play time does not equate someone wanting to help someone.
3: We already lose Mentor status per expansion or story quest update (~4 months), I think that's enough.
4: Not sure how current extremes help with giving some newbies direction or advice, some of them in fact have harder mechanics than they'll ever see like body checks, yes some of them do have body checks.
5: What would this accomplish?
6: I think this one is a good idea, AS A PREMISE. I think it should prioritize new players first, then just throw you into a dungeon. (I am one of those mentors that also takes up dungeons where someone has quit and helps finish runs, this usually because someone afked (dced) or, what my job entails, players needing help.)
7: ???? Unsure what you meant here.
8: You can already queue as any job despite the "role in need" prompt.
9: Incentivizing Mentors is a give and take situation, it really depends...I would say to incentivize them if and when they are thrown into content that would take most of their time. Like for example, a synced extreme or god forbid Prae..cause where you could be spending additional time helping someone else you are now stuck in that situation.
10: You mean a place I can take other players to learn their job? Absolutely would be for it.
11: Crafting mentors shouldn't be a thing, given what are they mentoring someone else in? But that's personally me.
----
Personally don't feel this post is a reform but mostly a gatekeep...which isn't something Mentor status should be.

I think to reform the Mentor system we should look to be adding more QoL updates to it, for example here's 10 I can think of:
1: A system that let's sprouts summon someone to help them, mentors will all receive a notification and whoever answers first will be the one teleported [The prompt will disappear]. (I'm surprised we don't have this.)
2: A system that let's sprouts have the option to "party with mentors", which will provide them with people [mentors] who (should) know what they're doing in a dungeon. It should also prompt what the sprout is queuing in for (as not everyone has the time to do Praetorium.)
3: A system that lets sprouts pass on the work to mentors, i.e if a quest needs a specific item they cannot make...lets a mentor make it for them. [Mentor deliveries(?) Something crafting mentors could do] (This one should probably be limited per day)
4: A place you can help teach a sprout their skills, roles, etc. Can be a prompt that "[Name of player here] in [Training Grounds here], looking for help on [Job here].
5: When in a party with a crafting mentor, increases the crafting exp for the individual up to a certain level.
6: A system that lets a mentor take a sprout into a pseudo dungeon, to teach them how dungeons are played. [Allows the sprout exp up to a certain level from that run (could be up until the very first dungeon)]
7: Sprout deliveries, allows sprouts to make some item to send to a mentor to thank them for helping them craft [Can be sparklers or something silly like that]. (Can also let them gain crafting exp up to a certain level) and give the mentor a feels good emotion by receiving something in exchange for help) [Could also be a Pseudo Craft Delivery to teach them how to sign up for them]
8: Sprouts hunts, revamping hunt logs to become normal hunts to teach sprouts how to unlock them. Allows Mentors to join them on Hunts when taking the application and teaching them where the pseudo monster spawns. (Could link to normal hunt quests.)
9: Something to do with Fates, but honestly Fates need an entire revamp.
10: If we do these features, maybe some sort of mentors points can be gained from: sprouts rating advice or work from the summoning of a mentor, sprouts rating mentors in dungeon runs, participating in teaching a sprout their job, turning in an item for a sprout, etc...that could be used to exchange for cosmetics, and maybe a title. [perhaps more, anything not groundbreaking (a hairstyle(?))]

[Toutatis]

1: A system that let's sprouts summon someone to help them, mentors will all receive a notification and whoever answers first will be the one teleported

So, we’d be constantly receiving pop ups. New players can already ask in NN, their GC or use PF.

2: A system that let's sprouts have the option to "party with mentors", which will provide them with people [mentors] who (should) know what they're doing in a dungeon. It should also prompt what the sprout is queuing in for

Mentor roulette is for filling whatever needs filling. It’s not FFXIV Academy save, perhaps, if an extreme pops up. If they allow mentors to pick and chose, some duties would never fill and I bet the mount grinders would jump on the short duties like Guildhests. Btw, it’s ok for a mentor to not know/remember everything.

For extremes, the best is to use PF whether you are new or not.

3: A system that lets sprouts pass on the work to mentors, i.e if a quest needs a specific item they cannot make...lets a mentor make it for them.

That defeats the purpose of the Crafting Mentor system: the idea is to teach the sprout how to be able to make whatever they want to make, not to make it for them. There’s the market board for those who don’t want to craft.

4: A place you can help teach a sprout their skills, roles, etc. Can be a prompt that "[Name of player here] in [Training Grounds here], looking for help on [Job here].

I don’t see the need for that. They could simply expand the existing tutorial to include some more different basic markers like the stack marker and circles you have to take away from others (maybe it’s already there, I don’t remember). As you progress the game, figuring out new mechanics is part of the fun.

For rotations and stuff, there are plenty of resources on the net and you can already meet a sprout near a training dummy. And please no more prompts/pop ups.

Sprout deliveries, allows sprouts to make some item to send to a mentor to thank them for helping them craft [Can be sparklers or something silly like that]… and give the mentor a feels good emotion by receiving something in exchange for help) [Could also be a Pseudo Craft Delivery to teach them how to sign up for them]

They can already craft whatever they want and give it away. And sparklers are like pop-ups: no more lol

You also don’t want to start a trend where mentors are expected to receive rewards from people they help. It would quickly become toxic. Just no.

8. Sprouts hunts, revamping hunt logs to become normal hunts to teach sprouts how to unlock them. Allows Mentors to join them on Hunts… and teaching them where the pseudo monster spawns.
9: Something to do with Fates, but honestly Fates need an entire revamp

Aren’t we pushing this a bit far? Hunts and fates? Really? What’s next, start a kindergarten in Thanalan? At some point people need to be able to take initiative, play the game and explore the game world by themselves. They can ask questions and look it up.

There are many players who can help in this game, not just mentors. A sprout who completed something and understands it can help too (and there are thousands of “fake sprouts” wjo have other characters too).

[Katish]

...

What you quoted were examples of direction, if we are going to be reforming the mentor system it should stay true to what the premise of the mentor was initially made to be...to teach lel. So if we're are going to be "reforming" the system the ends should justify the means...I.e giving a reason for mentorship to exist. Not sure why you are answering each independently though when they were only there to establish what it should be like not what it should be. Plus some of these features were done nicely in other mmos which is why I included them, they are not without premise. FOR EXAMPLE, Mabinogi included something that would allow newbie players to contact players with more experience by pressing an icon despite players having the ability to contact directly, it was added becauce not everyone was social or wanted to ask directly.

And I understand mentors AT THE MOMENT are meant to fill in, but if we are going to be reforming the system that shouldn't be the only thing.

[Raraka]

I was in a raid the other day. Saw people failing some mechanics. Obviously hadn't come across them before and kept dying. I explained them.

Then I looked up to see five crowns, absolutely silent and doing nothing to help.

The mentor system has failed.

This is what the game has devolved with the "you dont pay my sub" mentality

I know some people genuinely try to explain and help in a respectfull manner, but it takes a single "Dont tell me how to play" or "What an elitist" to kill your motivation to take the initiative

So thats were most people are now, they will stay silent untill asked for advice, and if asked, they will happily explain and answer questions

[Xirean]

This is what the game has devolved with the "you dont pay my sub" mentality

I know some people genuinely try to explain and help in a respectfull manner, but it takes a single "Dont tell me how to play" or "What an elitist" to kill your motivation to take the initiative

So thats were most people are now, they will stay silent untill asked for advice, and if asked, they will happily explain and answer questions

As frustrating as this can be it does make sense. People want to have the chance to determine for themselves if they can handle what is in front of them. The idea is essentially "give me the chance to fail before you start giving away all the secrets". Veteran players are already aware of when they might need advice though. We've been playing the game long enough to be able to recognize before doing something that it is probably going to be complicated and thus an explanation is a good idea. A sprout doesn't have that advantage so when they que into Ramuh Extreme for the first time and someone starts telling them all these specifics it can come off as aggressive no matter how it is worded.

I've long since determined that my purpose in the mentor roulette is to die until the sprouts decide they want help or they decide they are done with the activity.

[Bonoki]

I've long since determined that my purpose in the mentor roulette is to die until the sprouts decide they want help or they decide they are done with the activity.

Pretty much this. The mentor is there more to fill queues so it pops rather than see the instance to completion. The mentor can and should try to explain things but if the party wants to die blindly for 60 mins and figure out mechs among the other sprouts; then the mentors role is fulfilled by just being present.

[Astrahime]

a few ideas i had, you are ofcourse welcome to post your own!

*Change the name from mentor to veteren
*240 days subscribed required.
*mentor status lost after 6 months of inactivity (can be regained by talking to smith and completing all current trails and ex's aswell as longing in for more than 24 in game hours)
*Completion of current ex and all subsiquent ex's required
*Crown removed and changed with medal or shield above players head
*Mentor roulete only pairs you with a player new to that instance
*Mentor roulete now shows job in need and instances recruiting
*Ability to que for mentor on every role and change depending on whats needed when the duty pops (ex i que up, something pops and says "dps needed" "tank needed" ect-)
completion of current NORMAL raid required, *All Aliance raids + Msq (6.5 at time of post) (mb if this is already a thing)
*Increased rewards to incentivise mentors to do roulette even after 2k
*New instanced area designed to teach sprouts how to use esuna, spread for splashes, soak towers and stack markers
*Crafting and battle mentor chats being seperate (honestly this a gripe more than a demand) honestly just massive NN reform in general

appologies if spelling is bad, will review after!

*yes
*yes
*make that 2 months
*completion of everything not in Raid Finder
*or a watering can
*PLEASE, I WANT TO STOP GETTING PRAE
*PLEASE
*yes
-This is already required to queue for Mentor Roulette
*idk if this is a good idea
*Please. Stacks, spreads, cleaves, tank busters, towers, enumerations, proteans, and everything else that's a recurring mechanic.
*Not sure if this would even be possible.

[Kaurhz]

*Change the name from mentor to veteren - I don't think amending the name makes a difference, to be honest
*240 days subscribed required. - Too lenient.

*mentor status lost after 6 months of inactivity (can be regained by talking to smith and completing all current trails and ex's aswell as longing in for more than 24 in game hours) - Mentor status should require a modicum of activity yes... The latter part I will address in the point below.

*Completion of current ex and all subsiquent ex's required - I am not really sure this will amount to much either, really. Unless your idea of mentor is to then cater it towards end-game advisement. The purpose of mentor has and should always be for onboarding newer players. Of which I am not really sure completion of extreme actually enforces this any better than their current predicament. People at this level should already have the cursory knowledge to complete them without a mentor.

*Crown removed and changed with medal or shield above players head - Uh, I honestly think they should just remove icon outright and just have a different name, like an honorific "[Mentor]Adventurer Name@World Name:"

*Mentor roulete only pairs you with a player new to that instance - Sure, I can get behind this.

*Mentor roulete now shows job in need and instances recruiting - I think a job in need could be good. Instances recruiting I don't necessarily think is a good thing. IMO, the major change I would make is to remove Extreme Primals from the roulette pool - I get it, and it's not really a "I want easy wins" button. But rather party-finder renders this moot, largely.

*Ability to que for mentor on every role and change depending on whats needed when the duty pops (ex i que up, something pops and says "dps needed" "tank needed" ect-) - Good idea, I think.

completion of current NORMAL raid required, *All Aliance raids + Msq (6.5 at time of post) (mb if this is already a thing) - See, this is a reasonable requirement, in my opinion. All of the normal mode encounters teach you the fundamentals of the game.

*Increased rewards to incentivise mentors to do roulette even after 2k - This is a good idea. Personally, I would do an additional currency, or just loot coffers which people can use for random items.

*New instanced area designed to teach sprouts how to use esuna, spread for splashes, soak towers and stack markers - This would be a very good idea, and in fact, this is something that I would really aim to put mentorship focus on, rather than anything else, e.g., specific duties completed. Personally, I think by the time a player reaches the previous expansion from the last, then they should be equipped with all the cursory knowledge of the core game systems.

*Crafting and battle mentor chats being seperate (honestly this a gripe more than a demand) honestly just massive NN reform in general - I can get behind this - Though personally I would just turn it into a global chat. I think that mentors are treated as moderators for Novice Network is a massive part of the problem

[Ishe-P]

My disgustingly humble opinion. What would this accomplish exactly? It just moves the goal posts for what it means to be a mentor. But alas, here we are, and here I'll talk about it. For the record, I guess, my mount achieve mint progress currently is at 1338/2000. Point by point, let's go!

- Change the name from mentor to veteran
This change is superficial. I'll also hazard that not every veteran wants to be a mentor.

- 240 days subbed
Moving the goalposts. I don't think this would be good for the game. Extremely active subs could easily become mentors in more than just name only, especially if motivated to do so. Conversely, there are folks with 2000+ days subbed who couldn't mentor their way out of a paperbag. An arbitrary number will not change this and just makes it more difficult for people who actually want to do it, even if only slightly so.

- Current Ex completion
I'm not FULLY against this, but the NA community doesn't use DF usually and being current on EX's limits experienced players' overall ability to help true newbies. I think the current requirement of previous-expansion EX is enough. I can count on one hand how many times I've done ShB and SB EX's combined (it's 4, if Rathalos doesn't count).

- Crown Removed
This change is superficial. It would just cause the bad mentor meme to be different.

- Pair Only With New Players
I just don't think this would have a helpful effect for the community. In my experience, new players do not care if the person who joins is a mentor. They don't even notice. I could count on one hand where my being a mentor was called out specifically in a roulette (it's 2: Ifrit EX and Rathalos EX).

[snipped for length]

[Ishe-P]

[continued]


- Mentor roulette shows jobs in need / instances recruiting
Not a terrible idea, but at that point it's no longer a roulette. I strongly feel that the true randomness of Mentor Roulette is actually part of its appeal. But it would be nice to have a clean up list to work from sometimes, mostly so I stop getting Praetorium.

- Queue by Role
I do like the idea of switching roles based on what a party needs. That would help backfill for those abandons for sure. Completion of MSQ duties and Alliance Raids is already required, just not current EX.

- Increased Rewards
I wouldn't mind this either, but if you queue as a Role in Need, you get 7200 gil for completion which is an okay to a degree. However, there is a dampening effect to consider if SE puts really attractive rewards behind achieve mints. I think the mount, monocle and titles are decent for what it is; there's something to be said where someone only has a goal to fill and doesn't truly want to help people.

- Instance for Teaching
There is an instanced area that teaches some MMO Fundamentals. But there is no wonder in playing a game when it teaches you everything by level 15. I don't think this is overall a healthy choice for the game, especially as I cynically know certain communities would make doing something like this a requirement just to play and I don't feel that most players want to sit through an exam just to play something new and exciting. Also, if they introduce a new mechanic somehow, does that mean they have to go fix the teaching instance as well? Maybe workshop this one.

- Chat Separation and Fixes
This splits hairs a little bit. I just don't think that an NN forum benefits from having one chat and then another. It's too complicated and the chats evolve into idle chatter when no one's asking a question anyway. If players were better about policing their own behavior and/or were held accountable for their actions maybe NN's meme status would change, but in my eyes this is more punitive to truly new players than it looks.