Remove EXP from Frontline

[Mayhemmer]

Frontlines is already a mode that constantly tries it's best to put that "Why bother?" mindset in players. Fixing that itself is a whole other can of worms, but the people who are already dedicated to grinding out XP/crystals/marks through minimal participation are still going to put in minimal participation if the baseline rewards for losing a match remain the same. Nothing will have changed for them, they're still getting their rewards as they would have always been getting. You're just not going to make that handful of people in Onsal Hakair who afk on the ovoo closest to their base care enough to stop afking, unless you take away their incentive for doing so, in which case they'll probably just leave and, just maybe, be replaced with someone who actually wants to play the game.

Drastically slashing the rewards for a loss could help with the people who just don't care, but I think we all doubt that'll happen.

That said... drop Frontlines to 48 players and remove rng objectives, Yoshida.

[MisterNublet]

The 10% per level worth of exp from queuing into frontlines is low enough as it is. The only change that they need to make to the Daily Challenge: Frontline is that it requires winning (1st place) to get the rewards.

[Oizen]

The 10% per level worth of exp from queuing into frontlines is low enough as it is. The only change that they need to make to the Daily Challenge: Frontline is that it requires winning (1st place) to get the rewards.

This game is absolutely 100% allergic to giving feedback based on performance. Its never going to happen

[IvoryBadge]

The 10% per level worth of exp from queuing into frontlines is low enough as it is. The only change that they need to make to the Daily Challenge: Frontline is that it requires winning (1st place) to get the rewards.

Personally i spam Frontline for fun. power leveling my SMN from 30 to 83 and NIN from 30 to 56 just by doing frontlines for 3 weeks averaging 30 games a day. So yeah the base EXP reward is pretty low.

My point was removing the daily roulette reward and add more “unique” rewards to incentivise people to play seriously. Never thought about making the daily reward only obtainable by winning 1st in a match which is brilliant tbh. A lot of people might think this is some sort of gatekeeping but I genuinely believe that raising FLs skill bar and competitiveness will make it a lot better that SE will give more attention to this game mode to make it even more the better and fix a lot of core issues.

[ICountFrom0]

Which is ironic because the whole meta comp always works on these clueless/new players despite that meta comps are easy to counter or avoid, if people really do put in the effort and learn the game mode they can tell what is going (and see that dumb DRK run up from a mile away)

Not so much ironic, as intentional.

People WANT to feel powerful, so the influx of people who play badly, so folks who are good CAN feel powerful, is intentional.

If they cut the last place rewards, those crazy good feels from power plays goes away.

Bad players let good players feel awesome.

[IvoryBadge]

Not so much ironic, as intentional.

People WANT to feel powerful, so the influx of people who play badly, so folks who are good CAN feel powerful, is intentional.

If they cut the last place rewards, those crazy good feels from power plays goes away.

Bad players let good players feel awesome.

I get your point and it’s true to an extent.

I wouldn’t say the feeling of being powerful is completely gone when 3rd alliance is a competing. Having different players with different skill levels is more fun and enjoyable than all good players/only good players and bad players exist and nothing in between.

A prime example would be a certain FPS game that lost its charm when SBMM became its main pillar in the recent releases. SBMM aka “Skill based match making”, And let me tell you that system makes you regret popping off in a single game, the whole multiplayer scene became a sweat clown fiesta it’s not even fun to play anymore. I don’t think i need to name that FPS game.

Raising the skill bar for FL and make it more competitive doesn’t inherently throw away that feeling of accomplishment for being good. Nor it alienates new/bad players, quite the opposite it gives a reason for them to do better and learn by playing more (with rewards that are worth the trouble that is). add to that FL doesn’t revolve around individual performance for the most part, it’s the team play with the better strategies that determines the winner. If everyone queues for this game mode knowing what they have to do FL will be more organised and extremely fun unlike the hell of a mess it is now.

[Garten]

I honestly am a bit tired of the "less skilled player" excuse..

To me it seems:
-Or ppl dont care to win or lose (for now, so this is why losers should not get points, tomes, etc)
-Or ppl dont know how to read points and what the winning conditions are (and so they should get personal help and/or get back to school)

One of the 2


Edit for an example: I just finished a match in Seal Rock, while my team was winning (we were red if i recall correctly). In the end we let Adders win cause (even if me and another person was gently calling in chat) everybody just completely ignore some tomeliths and adders gaining points little by little with theirs.

[IvoryBadge]

I honestly am a bit tired of the "less skilled player" excuse..

To me it seems:
-Or ppl dont care to win or lose (for now, so this is why losers should not get points, tomes, etc)
-Or ppl dont know how to read points and what the winning conditions are (and so they should get personal help and/or get back to school)

One of the 2


Edit for an example: I just finished a match in Seal Rock, while my team was winning (we were red if i recall correctly). In the end we let Adders win cause (even if me and another person was gently calling in chat) everybody just completely ignore some tomeliths and adders gaining points little by little with theirs.

Right? Like I don’t understand why SE is trying to babysit people who aren’t even interested in PvP in the first place? It’s PLAYER VS PLAYER you’re supposed to compete and coordinate with teammates. You shouldn’t get rewarded for doing nothing at all. You don’t like it? Don’t queue for it. How is that hard to get?

2nd getting half and 3rd gets no rewards will make it much better than this everyone is a winner BS. Either that or remove daily roulette frontline.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

2nd getting half and 3rd gets no rewards will make it much better than this everyone is a winner BS. Either that or remove daily roulette frontline.

The issue with your suggestion is that rather than incentivizing playing better and striving for not being last place, you are cutting out EXP for NOT being 1st place. This still very much means "if you want reward then play better" but you are punishing for ending up in 3rd place rather than incentivizing becoming 1st place, like how I suggested in your thread's first comment.

If you'd want to implement a "remove ALL exp from 3rd place" you'd then need to make the rewards for 1st place astronomically high to make up for the risk of "3rd place gets nothing". If you do not, you only introduced punishment, which by every game design standard is a completely unreasonable implementation and generally met with negative feedback by a significant chunk of your playerbase.

The reason why I suggested amping the rewards for 1st + 2nd place rather than cutting/removing them from 2nd and 3rd is because you can't alienate players who aren't as good and might take time to improve by cutting off "everything" from them and say "you only get dinner if you get an A, you get a slice of bread if you get a B"; that will not improve the morale to be better. You want to keep what is already there and incentivize winning, not punish losing.

Furthermore, another reason why making 3rd place get nothing or close to nothing is a bad idea is because Frontlines has to compete with every other type of content for player participation providing EXP, tomes and even PvP currency. Why on earth would I want to spend 10-20 minutes on a duty I might have a 33.3% chance of getting no rewards at all from when I could do 3x Crystalline Conflict OR 1x Levelling Roulette + 1x Trial Roulette OR be on a hunt train for tomes?

IvoryBadge, let me be absolutely clear here - no sane game developer will punish the existing player base over incentivizing them because a small sub group of players is mad at not everyone being 100% interested in giving it their all in PvP all the time.

[Toutatis]

The issue with your suggestion is that rather than incentivizing playing better and striving for not being last place, you are cutting out EXP for NOT being 1st place. This still very much means "if you want reward then play better" but you are punishing for ending up in 3rd place rather than incentivizing becoming 1st place, like how I suggested in your thread's first comment.

Absolutely agree with this and everything you said in that post. The punishment would be too harsh and would drive people away.

You can solo queue and end up in a bad group that has no chance of winning. Why should the unlucky players who ended up in such groups be punished despite the fact that they put the effort?

You can also have 2-3 good groups that keep the score very tight and the outcome is decided at the very end.

It’s 20 minutes and people should get something. They’d just kill the queue if they remove rewards for 2nd and 3rd and it would become more toxic.