SGE/RPR feedback thread crosspost

[IDontPetLalas]

Honestly, no idea. I'm kind of with Ty that they probably initially were designing SGE to be more like the PvP version but, late in development, decided not to for some reason and kind of scrambled for the nearest exit and made "a better SCH" kind of by accident more than by intent. It's just a hypothesis, but seems reasonable.

What people seem to like about it is that it's smooth and not really clunky, which is the opposite of what most people who pine for SB healers want. In a way, or perhaps an ideal (*cough*4healers*cough*) world, they'd have made SGE and shfited SCH away from what it is back to what it was to appeal to both groups. Both those that like what SCH has become (SGE) and those why liked what it used to be (SCH). Of course, they didn't, so...who even knows. But the end result is that SGE seems to be broadly popular.



When I say people attack me, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I can only reply to what you posted - which was you mentioning the most liked posts based on number of likes - not what you may have done...but didn't say in your post. I can't reply to what you didn't say:



Note the parts I emphasized with underlines. You talk about counting the votes, and then "a quick review" and "looking at them quickly"; quick review/looking at them quickly doesn't mean "read all the replies in the thread".


You can't fault me for having the wrong take on your post when your post itself presents things that way.

So your natural assumption was that 'quick' necessitated incomplete or cursory review? I see, no it was quick as in "the actual time spent", but not incomplete. You can count upvotes based upon your rather dubious interpretation of how the feedback was on that thread, or you can tally up each post, however "the end result is that SGE seems to be broadly popular' is only partially telling the truth, it would be at least equally, if not more accurate, to say that many people are disappointed with multiple aspects of Sage.

[Renathras]

So your natural assumption was that 'quick' necessitated incomplete or cursory review? I see, no it was quick as in "the actual time spent", but not incomplete. You can count upvotes based upon your rather dubious interpretation of how the feedback was on that thread, or you can tally up each post, however "the end result is that SGE seems to be broadly popular' is only partially telling the truth, it would be at least equally, if not more accurate, to say that many people are disappointed with multiple aspects of Sage.

/sigh

No. Just no.

This reads like you made a statement, I correctly replied, then you wanted to take a dig at me, and I correctly pointed out you were incorrect to do so, and instead of backing down, you try to defend the incorrect dig.

Say whatever you want, I'm not going to bother with that kind of stupidity.

.

To the point on the end:

It would be more accurate to say "SGE is broadly popular (would rate above a 5.0 overall), but many people are disappointed with various aspects of SGE while many people are also very satisfied with various aspects of SGE." Your take is a "glass half empty" one.

[Rithy255]

Sage:
I'm not a fan, not because its bad but because of what it could have been, personally I prefer playing Scholar but both are very similar jobs. Kardia should be more interactive, I like the design and look of the job... I guess Healers are all in the same boat for me anyway, I really don't know why astro had to have it's barriers took away though.

Reaper:
It's alright? I like the other 4 melee dps better, but Reapers fine... Just I wish you had more basic combo actions I guess, Looks wise its very cool? I kinda wish it was just a tad bit more involved during down time job generally feels a bit too easy rotation wise.

In general I think both jobs were a letdown to me personally but that's just how I feel about it. I can understand why others may enjoy the jobs.

[IceBlueNinja]

Sage:
I'm not a fan, not because its bad but because of what it could have been, personally I prefer playing Scholar but both are very similar jobs. Kardia should be more interactive, I like the design and look of the job... I guess Healers are all in the same boat for me anyway, I really don't know why astro had to have it's barriers took away though.

Reaper:
It's alright? I like the other 4 melee dps better, but Reapers fine... Just I wish you had more basic combo actions I guess, Looks wise its very cool? I kinda wish it was just a tad bit more involved during down time job generally feels a bit too easy rotation wise.

In general I think both jobs were a letdown to me personally but that's just how I feel about it. I can understand why others may enjoy the jobs.

Because people complain how bad noc stance was and wanted it to be gone in the first place, or overall when ast just came out it got mass hate on how weaker copied clone of whm/sch it was? I mean this is what happens because there is always people not satisfied, and this is what sage is pretty much facing old astro noct hate abuse. Its the same exact echo chamber of complaints mess that have now passed on to sage, also the fairy of sch should be more interactive too like kardia. Hey ill go off topic and say the crafter jobs too should be different cause they are 90% clone of each other. Up coming viper job looks like another copied paste ninja to me.

While sage yes has most of sch kit , it still has some what different things being more of a mit healer than a barrier healer, pani/hami=makes those hard hitting nasty akh ron w.e they call mechs a meme, way better mobility since everything is instant movement minus using dosis, not punished as much as the other 3 jobs for dying . It has 3 dps buttons dosis/phela/toxi and actually is the first healer to have a early to access aoe cause of phel. I also do not see why toxicon 2 is claim a dps lost when it comes in handy when you have no time to press regular dosis because you gotta be constantly moving to mechs at times. Finally my wish I was hoping and it did happen was that its the first healer with a gap closer, yes it aint all that good like blms more fluent one but its something at least.

Ast is the same now mostly a whm clone just more I guess less janky with cheaper mp spells+infinite mp cause lucid+draw+astrodynejust like how sge is less janky than sch just the fact its a better whm that also gives some dry bread buffs which is a waste of time imo. Please see dancer/monk/bard/dragoon who seems to give better party buff than ast does anyways ^.^

[Rithy255]

just a reply to above (out of space)
I don't really recall people saying they wanted to remove noc stance? at least that's nothing i really heard at the time. I'm not saying they shouldn't have made sage either, I don't think the game would have much issues if we had 3 barrier healers and 2 pure healers... they will most likely add in another healer at some point. I personally really liked the idea behind ast having two different stances though I've never complained about it's barriers.

Funny thing is astro with barriers felt more unique to sage for me, SCH also has a lot of mits you're comparing apples to oranges here, I'm sure if you went through each healing kit theirs going to be some differences and advantages, but to me it doesn't really feel that different. Both are very built similar though and I think I'm more annoyed with how I thought sage was going to play as a "battle healer who heals by doing damage!" I think you could even make kardia more interactive (like buffing it to be aoe, buffing it to give barrier healing) obviously Soteria does this to a extent but they could build upon that identity.

Ast cards are actually pretty fun, I'd prefer some changes but I actually like it compared to just pressing a 120 buff window, I don't know where you'd get that for Monk? (it has a single raid buff?) It's also different in the fact white mage is a gcd healer and Ast is very dependent on their ogcds... I don't know I feel like astro is more unique to me.

I'm glad you enjoy sage even if it's not for me really, I much rather stick to astro or scholar (or any other job really, healer isn't my favourite design in this game despite me generally enjoying support roles way more in most other games).

[ForsakenRoe]

The complaints about Noct Sect at the time were essentially that it was not very comparable to SCH in terms of power. It's debatable if that was because Noct was weak, or because SCH was busted strong (probably more the former pre-SHB, and definitely the latter with HW and SB) Off the top of my head, Crit Adlo Deploy back then would spread the full shield (rather than just half as it is now), allowing teams to 'delete mechanics' with how much mit they could achieve, and the Bubble comparison was an interesting one, with Soil being 15s, ground based (have to consider positioning somewhat) and 30s CD, whereas CU was 20s duration, stuck to the player (like Kerachole does now), but the big factor was the 60s CD. Well, after they had buffed Noct a couple of times, it was not good on release. Regardless, because of these factors it was a MUCH harder time for a Noct AST to handle certain things in higher end content. You'd have less overall mitigation to work with for something like Morn Afahs in UCOB, or Primal Roulette in UWU, just because of the cooldown

I thought sage was going to play as a "battle healer who heals by doing damage!" I think you could even make kardia more interactive (like buffing it to be aoe, buffing it to give barrier healing) obviously Soteria does this to a extent but they could build upon that identity.

The problem with that is that people who are good at the new-SGE would be able to do more damage than the people who are not as good, because they'd be able to use that damage>healing kit to reduce how much they need to use bad GCDs like Diagnosis and Prognosis. And apparently we can't have that /s

(I would also like to see such a thing, I've even made a post suggesting as much)

[Connor]

The problem with that is that people who are good at the new-SGE would be able to do more damage than the people who are not as good, because they'd be able to use that damage>healing kit to reduce how much they need to use bad GCDs like Diagnosis and Prognosis. And apparently we can't have that /s

The saddest thing about this is that it literally happens anyway lol. Even just something as simple as not understanding the relationship between gcd/oGCDs can make a pretty significant difference in dps output. Like, they literally gutted everything from healers so there would be next to no variation between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ healer… and they still failed lol

[IceBlueNinja]

The complaints about Noct Sect at the time were essentially that it was not very comparable to SCH in terms of power. It's debatable if that was because Noct was weak, or because SCH was busted strong (probably more the former pre-SHB, and definitely the latter with HW and SB) Off the top of my head, Crit Adlo Deploy back then would spread the full shield (rather than just half as it is now), allowing teams to 'delete mechanics' with how much mit they could achieve, and the Bubble comparison was an interesting one, with Soil being 15s, ground based (have to consider positioning somewhat) and 30s CD, whereas CU was 20s duration, stuck to the player (like Kerachole does now), but the big factor was the 60s CD. Well, after they had buffed Noct a couple of times, it was not good on release. Regardless, because of these factors it was a MUCH harder time for a Noct AST to handle certain things in higher end content. You'd have less overall mitigation to work with for something like Morn Afahs in UCOB, or Primal Roulette in UWU, just because of the cooldown



The problem with that is that people who are good at the new-SGE would be able to do more damage than the people who are not as good, because they'd be able to use that damage>healing kit to reduce how much they need to use bad GCDs like Diagnosis and Prognosis. And apparently we can't have that /s

(I would also like to see such a thing, I've even made a post suggesting as much)

In SBH When celestial was reworked noct ast was actually stronger since you can combine noct helios+celestial opp noct for a good party shield and I never struggled in content like the eden raids as a noct ast and the fact then you can use celestial inter which then gave a regen while shielding, actually if it was content below shadowbringers like old stormblood or hw alliance raid noct ast in some way defeated sch, because at that point sch have no recitation(the thing that makes their shield so broken to begin with), so they only had plain galv or even if they crit alco and spread it it wasnt stronger by much than the celestial opp noct+helio noct combo. Celestial also is just 60 seconds cd while dep tatic is 120s so an noct ast will pump out thicker shields than sch in content lower than shb. Honestly if recitation was gutted or deployment tatics didnt spread crit alcos at that point really sch pretty gg cause really if sage can spread a crit zoe e dig which is stronger than a crit alco at that point I doubt anyone would even bat an eye to sch , Holos makes Seraph just like?